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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Happy 4th of July America (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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mastermindreader
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It's still a far cry from the massive tax increase on all Americans that the far right is loudly lying about.

Funny that back when the Heritage Foundation and other Republican groups were touting the mandate it was portrayed as simply a matter of accepting personal responsibility, an admirable conservative goal. Now that Obama actually implemented their idea is is suddenly just another tax and spend socialist idea.

Go figure.
LobowolfXXX
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I definitely agree that it's not going to be a massive tax increase on all Americans. I'm not sure if they're including not only the people paying the penalty, but the people buying health insurance who wouldn't do so but for the Act.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2012-07-08 19:10, mastermindreader wrote:
It's still a far cry from the massive tax increase on all Americans that the far right is loudly lying about.

Funny that back when the Heritage Foundation and other Republican groups were touting the mandate it was portrayed as simply a matter of accepting personal responsibility, an admirable conservative goal. Now that Obama actually implemented their idea is is suddenly just another tax and spend socialist idea.

Go figure.


I agree, but that's hardly a one-sided phenomenon. Both sides ignore or even laud their guys' policies that they criticize to high heaven when the they're the other side's.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
balducci
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Quote:
On 2012-07-08 16:22, LobowolfXXX wrote:

my issue isn't whether or not it's construed as a tax, but the inconsistency between the administration's public position and its legal position.

"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines."
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2012-07-08 19:22, balducci wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-07-08 16:22, LobowolfXXX wrote:

my issue isn't whether or not it's construed as a tax, but the inconsistency between the administration's public position and its legal position.

"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines."


The operative word being "foolish."
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
balducci
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Quote:
On 2012-07-08 14:59, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-07-08 14:52, mastermindreader wrote:
You mean HMO's are only figments of our collective imagination?

In the US there are stories on a weekly basis of horrific malpractice within the framework of our current system.


And, apparently, hundreds of preventable deaths in Canada, also on a weekly basis.

Be that as it may, one of the links you posted ( http://www.cmaj.ca/content/170/11/1678.full ) states that this adverse event rate was lower than in the hospitals studied in England, New Zealand, or Australia. The U.S. rates were not directly comparable in that particular study, due to differences in methodology and record keeping etc.

However, this recent study (see below) found that the "U.S. Ranks Last Among High-Income Nations on Preventable Deaths, Lagging Behind as Others Improve More Rapidly":

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/News/New......ths.aspx
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
balducci
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Quote:
On 2012-07-08 19:24, LobowolfXXX wrote:

The operative word being "foolish."

Indeed, but certainly it IS foolish to worry about something that changes nothing.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
mastermindreader
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Quote:
On 2012-07-08 19:21, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-07-08 19:10, mastermindreader wrote:
It's still a far cry from the massive tax increase on all Americans that the far right is loudly lying about.

Funny that back when the Heritage Foundation and other Republican groups were touting the mandate it was portrayed as simply a matter of accepting personal responsibility, an admirable conservative goal. Now that Obama actually implemented their idea is is suddenly just another tax and spend socialist idea.

Go figure.


I agree, but that's hardly a one-sided phenomenon. Both sides ignore or even laud their guys' policies that they criticize to high heaven when the they're the other side's.


But how come you jump on me when I use a tu quoque argument? No fair.
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2012-07-08 19:42, mastermindreader wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-07-08 19:21, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-07-08 19:10, mastermindreader wrote:
It's still a far cry from the massive tax increase on all Americans that the far right is loudly lying about.

Funny that back when the Heritage Foundation and other Republican groups were touting the mandate it was portrayed as simply a matter of accepting personal responsibility, an admirable conservative goal. Now that Obama actually implemented their idea is is suddenly just another tax and spend socialist idea.

Go figure.


I agree, but that's hardly a one-sided phenomenon. Both sides ignore or even laud their guys' policies that they criticize to high heaven when the they're the other side's.


But how come you jump on me when I use a tu quoque argument? No fair.


Only because (it seemed that) you used to play the tu quoque card a lot. As I think I mentioned in one of those posts a while back, I don't really care if it's utilized or criticized, but it should be one or the other.

My personal view is that it depends how it's being used. It's no defense at all to "Your guys do it." It's a perfectly valid (and important) response to, "Your guys do it, and my guys don't."
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2012-07-08 19:39, balducci wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-07-08 19:24, LobowolfXXX wrote:

The operative word being "foolish."

Indeed, but certainly it IS foolish to worry about something that changes nothing.


And yet the political discussions abound in NVMS.

Myself, I don't "worry" about it at all. But I think it's an appropriate response to the suggestion that one (and only one) side is being disingenuous and playing politics with the issue. Even it doesn't change things any more than talking about why Americans don't get healthcare treatment in Canada, or any other equally foolish discussion.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
mastermindreader
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If it weren't for foolish discussions I would be forced to do something constructive with my time.

:eek:
Steve_Mollett
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Quote:
On 2012-07-08 13:17, critter wrote:
Wait a minute... how the crap did the health insurance debate come up in a nice thread about a patriotic holiday? How screwed up is that?

It started with Woland writing:

Quote:
The "Star Spangled Banner" begins and ends with a question . . . Here's one for today:
Are we to remain a country of free people, or will we become a country of free things?

From there, the usual, tired, political pattern again emerged.
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth.
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Woland
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Yes, it's a terrible thing to ask a question . . . since all of the answers are already known . . . . or blowing in the wind . . . or something.
tommy
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If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Billybonkers
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I'm a englishman living in L.A and get asked buy my colleges work every 4th of july "Do you celebrate 4th of July in the U.K?"

Erm. No. No we don't.
critter
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That's because Brits call it "Periwinkle Day" and instead of awesome fireworks they dance around the Periwinkle pole whilst singing "Tum-Tum-Tiddle-Dee-Tum."
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2012-07-08 18:14, LobowolfXXX wrote:
I have no idea how many people can afford health insurance and will choose not to get it, and I don't believe anyone in the employ of the federal government (including but not limited to the President and your favorite five people in the CBO) does, either.




Gee, the CBO was only off by 50% two years later. Just fills you with confidence about the accuracy of the rest of their decade-long projections, don't it?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/19......business
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Josh Chaikin
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For a thread titled "Happy 4th of July America," it sure made an interesting tangent. Ah, The Magic Café!
Steve_Mollett
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Quote:
On 2012-07-08 21:58, Woland wrote:
Yes, it's a terrible thing to ask a question . . . since all of the answers are already known . . . . or blowing in the wind . . . or something.

For the record, that was not just a question--it was an unnecessary rhetorical, political GAUNTLET being thrown, with a bomb inside.
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth.
- Albert Camus
Woland
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Was it an unnecessary rhteorical question when Benjamin Franklin asked it?
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