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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Happy 4th of July America (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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mastermindreader
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No, not really. Not even close, actually. But you don't think we're going to come to any agreement on this do you?

I don't.

Quote:
“If by a "Liberal" they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people-their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights and their civil liberties-someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal", then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal.”
― John F. Kennedy, Profiles in Courage


But I think we both can agree that the San Diego fireworks were the most spectacular in the country, even if the show was the shortest on record.

:eek:
Pecan_Creek
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You know, I finally get it.

Woland is right. All these left wing namby pamby stuff is killing America.
Think about it. We have gone so far with liberal democracy that people feel entitled to such an exent that they get to disregard years of scholarship and real study by experts and substitute ther own opinions, facts be dam*ed.

Time for some good old fashioned pogroms.

Oops that would be WAY too Left Wing!!, never mind
Woland
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Hi Bob,

Yes, Ted Sorensen was a great writer . . . but we do agree about those San Diego fireworks! Absolutely stunning show.

We could spend many a happy hour exploring the past histories of the terms "left," "right," "liberal," and "conservative" in British, American, and Continental politics. The nuances are very important. The differences between the British enlightenment and the Continental enlightenment account for a lot of it.

Thanks, Pecan, Copernicus and Galileo were once accused of disregarding centuries of reputable scholarship, too. Look at the history of socialism, fascism, and National-Socialism yourself, you will see that these movements were cut from the same cloth.
Steve_Mollett
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All I'm seeing is "Our side is always right and your side is always wrong."
The usual horse hockey.
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth.
- Albert Camus
mastermindreader
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No, Steve. My side is usually always left.
S2000magician
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Quote:
On 2012-07-06 09:13, Steve_Mollett wrote:
Freedom is just another word for nothing-left-to-lose.
- Janis Joplin

Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose.
- Kris Kristofferson

;)
LobowolfXXX
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I look at "left" and "right" not as if on a number line, but a video game screen, like for Asteroids. Too far in either direction and you end up in the same place, regardless of what you set out for.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
landmark
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It's at least a two dimensional grid with left--right orthogonal to authoritarian--anarchist. That's why those ex-Stalinists gravitate to neo-conservatism. Love that dictator stuff.
Woland
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Sorry, guys, but the reason that the "far right" Nazis and Fascists end up in the same place as the "far left" Communists, is simply that National-Socialism and Fascism are, like Communism, variants of socialist statism. All 3 systems are centrally, bureaucratically-controlled economies, using violence and terror, and the elimination of classes, races, or other groups of people they perceive as in the way, in order to achieve a utopian dream - essentially the same dystopian nightmare in practice. But you don't have to take my word for it, take the time to read Timothy Snyder's Bloodlands, Richard Overy;s The Dictators, and especially Vasily Grossman's Life and Fate - you will see how similar these statist ideologies really are. They only opposed each other as rivals.

And if you were referring to me, landmark, I was never a Stalinist. My parents were pro-Soviet fellow-travelers who left the Party at the time of the Hungarian Uprising. Despite my dear late father's counsel that I learn from V.I. Lenin's Left-wing Communism, an Infantile Disorder, I was a Maoist.
landmark
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Wasn't referring to you, though I don't think Mao was less authoritarian than Stalin.
Woland
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Of course not, but it had a different flavor.
Chessmann
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As soon as I saw this topic, I thought, "I wonder how many posts it will take before this simple good-wishes topic will turn into a debate or argument?"

That said, I thought this from Chris Rock was hilarious:

"Happy white peoples independence day the slaves weren't free but I'm sure they enjoyed the fireworks."

I would have used punctuation, myself, but it is still very funny.
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
tommy
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Which gang is the most radical?

Islamists or Christians

Cops or Robbers

Mothers or Fathers

Bobs gang or Danny's

:)
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On 2012-07-06 20:38, tommy wrote:
Which gang is the most radical?
..


Burger King's Bruisers or McDonald's Marauders or Wendy's Wingmen or ...

Crips or Bloods, Coke or Pepsi - what colors do you fly?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
critter
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Have it your way.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
Jeff J.
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Quote:
On 2012-07-06 15:45, S2000magician wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-07-06 09:13, Steve_Mollett wrote:
Freedom is just another word for nothing-left-to-lose.
- Janis Joplin

Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose.
- Kris Kristofferson

;)


No. Janis Joplin owned that version.
mastermindreader
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Kristofferson wrote it though. They're his words.
landmark
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Quote:
On 2012-07-06 20:46, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-07-06 20:38, tommy wrote:
Which gang is the most radical?
..


Burger King's Bruisers or McDonald's Marauders or Wendy's Wingmen or ...

Crips or Bloods, Coke or Pepsi - what colors do you fly?

That's why I say the scale for left-right is orthogonal to authoritarian-anarchist. Not much difference functionally between left-right when on the high end of authoritarianism, though some of the details are different. The supporters of the Fascist regimes in Chile, Argentina, and Greece in the latter half of the last century were unabashedly right-wing authoritarians.
tommy
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Democracry is no guarentee of good governance, obviously one might vote into power someone who turns out to be a monster. Which is why the American Constitution is a cool thing. But just a moment... as that is always in power is it like an ever living dictator?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Woland
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Hi landmark,

The regimes you mention - Argentina, Chile, and Greece - were not "fascist." They were authoritarian military dictatorships that did not put into place any part of the fascist politico-economic system. The use of the term "fascist" to describe them is only left-wing name-calling. By labeling all other statist tyrannies - and everyone else they didn't like - as "fascist," the Communists obscured the similarities between the fascist system and their system.
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