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landmark
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Jacobo Timerman, the famous Argentine writer who was imprisoned was quite clear that Argentina and Chile were right wing fascist states:
http://www.nytimes.com/1988/01/10/books/......wanted=2
Woland
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Hi landmark, quoting a famous left wing journalist does not provide evidence that Argentina and Chile were at all fascist. (Besides, that New Duranty Times review refers to "the Nazi original" as the model for "full-blown fascism," which is clearly wrong, since Italian Fascism was the model and the original, and the National-Socialist system differed signficantly from the original fascist model. But since the Times' reviewer, much like Timmerman, is just using the term "fascist" in the same loose way that XVIth century Inquisitors used the term "witch," it doesn't really matter to him.)

Did these regimes ever describe themselves as fascist? Did they govern through a fascist party? Did they establish typical fascist institutions? They were military dictatorships, and from the outside, perhaps, all military dictatorships share certain similarities. Military posturing was an important part of National-Socialist and Italian Fascist public self-presentations, too, so the military aspects of these South American regimes may indeed resemble the military aspects of Fascist Italy. But of course the mature Soviet Union indulged in the same sort of military display. (Not surprising, really, since socialism, in essence, represents the militarization of all economic life, and the organization of civilian activities on military lines.)
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Still whipping this horse? It IS dead, you know.
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The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth.
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Woland
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Sorry, Steve, you may be right, but as Bertolt Brecht put it, "Der Schoß ist fruchtbar noch, aus dem das kroch."
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If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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She should cut down on the beans...
Also known, when doing rope magic, as "Cordini"
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Quote:
On 2012-07-07 09:42, Mr. Mystoffelees wrote:
She should cut down on the beans...


QUALITY!
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
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As far as the militarization of the economy goes, here's what the Times' columnist, Nick Kristof, had to say about it:

Quote:
Yet if we seek another model, one that emphasizes universal health care and educational opportunity, one that seeks to curb income inequality, we don’t have to turn to Sweden. Rather, look to the United States military.

You see, when our armed forces are not firing missiles, they live by an astonishingly liberal ethos — and it works. The military helped lead the way in racial desegregation, and even today it does more to provide equal opportunity to working-class families — especially to blacks — than just about any social program. It has been an escalator of social mobility in American society because it invests in soldiers and gives them skills and opportunities.

The United States armed forces knit together whites, blacks, Asians and Hispanics from diverse backgrounds, invests in their education and training, provides them with excellent health care and child care. And it does all this with minimal income gaps: A senior general earns about 10 times what a private makes, while, by my calculation, C.E.O.’s at major companies earn about 300 times as much as those cleaning their offices. That’s right: the military ethos can sound pretty lefty.

“It’s the purest application of socialism there is,” Wesley Clark, the retired four-star general and former supreme allied commander of NATO forces in Europe, told me. And he was only partly joking.


That sums up the essence of a centrally-controlled command economy (as opposed to a market economy), whether socialist, Communist, National-Socialist, or Fascist; put everyone in the entire society in uniform and under orders, and let the elite planners and bureaucrats issue those orders. The details of how you put that into practice differ from statist system to statist system, but the outcome is more or less the same, and the results are always deplorable.

And don't think for a minute that isn't what the bureaucrats want:

Quote:
Echoing the laments of pundits like Thomas Friedman of the New York Times, U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood argued Saturday that China outpaces the United States in building major transportation infrastructure like high-speed rail because of its authoritarian system and because the Chinese don't have the Republican Party holding up progress.

"The Chinese are more successful [in building infrastructure] because in their country, only three people make the decision. In our country, 3,000 people do, 3 million," LaHood said in a short interview with The Cable on the sidelines of the 2012 Aspen Ideas Festival on June 30. "In a country where only three people make the decision, they can decide where to put their rail line, get the money, and do it. We don't do it that way in America."


Let him have his way, and see if you like the results . . .
landmark
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Then you are opposed to the VA system of benefits?
Woland
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Why would you think so?
landmark
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Your previous comments regarding socialized medicine.
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"Discussion is an exchange of knowledge; an argument an exchange of ignorance."
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The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth.
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Woland
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The military represents, landmark, a special case. I do not favor the militarization of all of society, but I do not think that the military function can be fulfilled by free-market mechanisms. The military must remain an hierarchical, oath-bound, disciplined organization, and although I favor universal military service, I see no problem in providing an adequate salary and other benefits to military personnel. Medical benefits for retirees are certainly part of that picture. The VA system is one way of providing those benefits. There has been a lot of debate within the medical profession and in the wider society as to whether the VA system is the best possible system for ensuring the provision of the best possible medical care for military retirees. But I have no objection to the VA system per se.
landmark
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There is no longer any need for military discipline among military retirees. But it is an efficient, economical single payer system, which could be a model for others.
Woland
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Correct about the retirees, but the fact that they subordinated their freedom to protect ours should be respected. The VA is a single payer system that could be a model for others. How efficient and economical it is, and the quality of the care that it provides, are subjects for an altogether different discussion. For example, I do not happen to think that all of the foreigners who come to the United States for medical care would do so if the VA was the only option.
landmark
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The measure of the system we want is based on what foreigners would do?
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Interestingly, when Canadians come here for medical treatment that is necessary but unavailable in Canada, the cost of such treatment is generally covered by their government. It's a bit ironic, given that many Americans cannot afford the same treatments.

Do you know how many Americans go to Canada for prescription drugs and medical care?
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Not the measure, landmark, but surely not unworthy of consideration.

As far as Canadians using American medical care go, Bob, consider the case of Belinda Stronach, M.P. for Newmarket-Aurora, who paid for cancer surgery in California, or Newfoundland & Labrador Premier Denny Williams, who paid for his own cardiac surgery in Florida.

Medical care is something that the United States can be said to export, although foreign patients have to come here to get it. They are generally charged top dollar prices, and they are often patients who can afford to go anywhere in the world for care.

Moreover, Bob, Americans are not going to Canada to be treated in a VA sort of system, but by private doctors and hospitals whose fees are reimbursed by provincial health insurance plans.
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My point, which you didn't address, is that for necessary treatment that cannot be obtained in Canada, the Canadian government generally pays the bill for their citizens who must go to the US for treatment.

It's time we joined the rest of the industrialized world and recognize that health care should be available to ALL.
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Quote:
On 2012-07-07 21:30, Woland wrote:

As far as Canadians using American medical care go, Bob, consider the case of Belinda Stronach, M.P. for Newmarket-Aurora, who paid for cancer surgery in California, or Newfoundland & Labrador Premier Denny Williams, who paid for his own cardiac surgery in Florida.

Medical care is something that the United States can be said to export, although foreign patients have to come here to get it. They are generally charged top dollar prices, and they are often patients who can afford to go anywhere in the world for care.

Consider what? Woland, both Stronach and Williams were HIGHLY unusual cases. At least in Stronach's case, most of her care WAS in Canada. Both are among the super-rich (not that there is anything wrong with that), but super-rich U.S. citizens have also been known to seek treatment outside of their own country. In the case of Williams, he certainly DID NOT HAVE to go to the U.S. for any medical reason. Regarding Williams and his heart surgery, from a newspaper article at the time:

---
Canadian physicians said they were at a loss to think of any heart surgeries, beyond rare and exotic procedures, done in the U.S. that aren’t readily available at Canadian institutes, although often not in Newfoundland. Dr. Bryce Taylor, surgeon-in-chief at Toronto’s prestigious University Health Network, said Ontario’s heart centres offer the latest techniques with virtually no waiting lists, unless a patient insists on a particular famous surgeon.

There are, of course, differences between what’s on offer on either side of the border. For example, Taylor said some wealthy patients are enticed to U.S. medical “boutiques” that advertise surgery with very small incisions and sometimes robotic equipment. But those innovations are not proven, he added, to be better for the patient. Doctors in both Canada and the U.S. are divided on them. Another difference is the deluxe service offered, for a price, by some famous U.S. hospitals, such as the highly ranked Cleveland Clinic. “It is true that the Cleveland Clinic has so-called concierge treatment,” Taylor said. “They will meet visitors at the airport in limos. I suppose that might be very seductive.”

Canadian hospitals can’t match expensive U.S. clinics when it comes to upscale amenities. Keeping pace on cutting-edge procedures is another matter. When it comes to repairing heart valves, for instance, specialists in Ontario, like virtuoso surgeon Dr. Tirone David, Toronto General Hospital’s head of cardiovascular surgery, are internationally renowned.

[Woland, don't miss this next part ...]

Why don’t sick American millionaires come north for such surgeries then? Actually, they often ask to, but are usually turned down. The reason: since 2004 Canadian physicians and hospitals have generally not been insured if malpractice suits are brought against them following elective surgeries in U.S. courts, where judgements can be huge.
---

And lets not even get into medical tourism, and the increasing number of U.S. citizens being sent overseas (to far less luxurious clinics than what the super-rich tend to favour) by their HMOs etc. for treatment.

Well, okay, let's go there:

http://www.tampabay.com/news/health/medi....../1079824
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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