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balducci
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BTW here is the link for the article I was quoting from:

http://www2.macleans.ca/2010/02/09/what-......th-care/

Note also:

Dr. Jack Tu, senior scientist at Toronto’s Institute for Clinical Evaluative Sciences, has researched outcomes for heart patients in the two countries. Despite famously contrasting health insurance systems, Tu said there’s little difference. But in a recent, unpublished comparison, he found Canada seems to do somewhat better when it comes to patients having to be readmitted to hospital after being discharged following treatment for heart failure. In the U.S., about a quarter end up back in hospital within a month; in Canada, it’s about one-fifth.

Tu suspects pressure to keep hospital bills down means U.S. patients are more likely to be discharged a bit too soon. “In Canada, hospitals are on a global budget,” he observed. “We don’t have insurance companies bugging doctors to send people home quickly.” In fact, the issue of readmissions has prompted the American College of Cardiology and the U.S. Institute for Healthcare Improvement to launch a program called Hospital to Home, in a bid to find ways to lower that troubling readmission rate. Even the elite U.S. hospitals are seized by the issue. Last year, the Cleveland Clinic appointed a task force to study the problem. Broadly speaking, Tu said American hospitals tend to have the edge in technology and intensive care facilities, but Canada’s health system is better at caring for patients over longer periods, including after they leave hospital, and in making sure they get the prescription drugs they need.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
LobowolfXXX
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Seems like a safe place to screw up a case, for sure. http://ezinearticles.com/?Why-98%-Of-Can......=1192041

I'm still trying to figure out why U.S. Courts would have jurisdiction over malpractice claims in Canada with American patients who travel for procedures, though.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
balducci
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U.S. courts and (many) U.S. lawyers seem to think that the world is their cherry tomato, ripe for the picking.

FWIW, I'm not sure that a lawyer's advertising copy is the best place to get at the truth of the matter on any subject.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
LobowolfXXX
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Unless the Canadian hospital is actively marketing for American patients (which seems highly unlikely if they aren't taking them), I would strongly suspect that such lawsuit would be dismissed at the outset for lack of jurisdiction. Sounds like a fishy explanation to me.

The above does not constitute, and should not be taken as, legal advice.

Regarding the truth of matters, the article seemed reasonably well-sourced (not that I checked the citations), and lawyers (in the USA, anyway) are under some serious constraints and potential penalties regarding false advertising. What's the source for the claim that Canadian hospitals don't treat Americans out of fear that they'll be subject to huge malpractice awards in American courts?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
balducci
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Even if it is unlikely to succeed, why risk it?

I don't know much about it ... I do know that I have read here in Canada from time to time about U.S. courts making decisions that affect Canadian companies.

You might like to waste some time looking at this:

http://www.tseed.com/aslme/conference/data/papers/044.pdf

Especially starting around page 21.

"Aggrieved patients might also argue for U.S. jurisdiction under a continuing tort theory, if the patient continues to feel the foreign provider’s tortious conduct in the forum state.30 But U.S. courts may be reluctant to make this leap unless the patient has some sort of continuing relationship with the provider.31 Notwithstanding these hurdles, patients might be comforted to know that U.S. courts often provide remedies when Americans are tortiously injured in Mexico.32 In fact, U.S. courts decide far more tort cases arising in Mexico than Mexican courts do.33"

If U.S. courts make those determinations about cases in Mexico, I can well imagine Canadian providers might be worried.

Heck, hasn't the recent past proved to us all how unpredictable and vagary U.S. courts are. Smile
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
LobowolfXXX
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"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
balducci
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Did we post simultaneously? I just mention that in case you missed my post above.

BTW, the ezinearticle you linked to before, the author has this promotional book available online:

http://www.apmlawyers.com/files/healthscare-ebook.pdf
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
mastermindreader
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When it comes to health care, there is no question that the US is NUMBER ONE.

In costs.

When it comes to quality of care, though, we're 37th in the world.

USA! USA!

http://www.examiner.com/article/why-chan......he-world
LobowolfXXX
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Yes, simultaneous post. Thanks for the link...looks like interesting reading. Section I.A. (Suing Foreign Providers in the United States) is entirely consistent with my off-the-cuff reaction. I think the answer to "why risk it?" is that there's big money in providing medical service, even in Canada. And, per the link you posted, "In summary, although aggrieved patients might logically believe that suing A foreign provider is the most straightforward avenue for redress, it is anything but. Patients will not only struggle to establish jurisdiction and venue in U.S. Courts, but they may find that courts will scrutinize the Foreign providers' conduct using foreign law...these successive obstacles May render foreign providers virtually untouchable in U.S. Courts."

And..."whether patients can recover in U.S. Courts for malpractice committed overseas...I use existing scholarship to outline various legal theories...I emphasize The term "theories" here because U.S. Courts have yet to test these claims..

I'm no risk management dude, but refusing to provide treatment to Americans out of such a fear seems...awfully conservative for such a (relatively) liberal country...
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
LobowolfXXX
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It's time for another plug for my ol' buddy Austan's overview article.

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and......ber.html
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Woland
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Hi Bob,

Health care is available for all in the United States. Any hospital that has an emergency room is required by law to treat all patients who show up, period. The problems have to do with how to pay for medical care for patients who don't happen to be eligible for Medicaid, Medicare, and who don't have private insurance.

The W.H.O. rankings you cite do not measure the quality of medical care, but a host of social and financial issues around medical care. When you look strictly at the results achieved for patients who have cancer, for example, patients in America live longer and live better than patients in the rest of the world, including Western Europe. American cancer patients do particularly better than patients in Britain.

Many people have problems dealing with doctors, hospitals, and insurance companies. But those problems are not going to go away if you substitute one single insurance payor, i.e. the Federal government. In fact, the bureaucratic hassles will only get worse.

This weekend's Journal had an interesting article on controlling Medicare costs. Entitled "The Crushing Cost of Health Care," the article noted that:

Quote:
A sliver of the sickest patients account for the majority of U.S. health-care spending. In 2009, the top 10% of Medicare beneficiaries who received hospital care accounted for 64% of the program's hospital spending, the Journal's analysis found.


They profiled the case of a 41-year-old man who developed idiopathic cardiomyopathy, underwent a heart transplant procedure, and then went on to die within a year, racking up nearly 3 million dollars in medical costs, 2.1 million dollars paid by Medicare.

When a government bureaucrat decides that you have already used up your Obamacare-guaranteed allotment of health care, there will be no appeal, and no alternative.

Except perhaps for the very rich. They'll be able to go to Canada, I guess.
Steve_Mollett
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4th of July is long over.
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth.
- Albert Camus
mastermindreader
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Quote:
When a government bureaucrat decides that you have already used up your Obamacare-guaranteed allotment of health care, there will be no appeal, and no alternative.


Haven't read the ACA have you? Fear mongering won't cut it. Caps on annual care are specifically prohibited.
Woland
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It will never be over in my heart . . . .
Steve_Mollett
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Oh yeah, I've seen that heart--stuck through with little Walmart American flags like a porcupine. Smile
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth.
- Albert Camus
Woland
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No, you haven't seen it, Steve.

But I think again to the fact that "The Star Spangled Banner" begins and ends with a question, and with (speaking of medicine) Doctor Benjamin Rush's observation that the victory at Yorktown did not end the American Revolution, but close only its first chapter.

Bob, I am gravely concerned about the direction being taken by American medicine over the past decade or so, as I have seen it first-hand as a patient and with family members who have been patients. Obamacare will not solve the very real problems that we experience. But as surely as the poor, victimized uninsured will be called despicable freeloaders as soon as the law gets going (and it's already happening) there will be plenty of limits on the care that the nomenklatura will allow hoi polloi to receive. Just you wait and see.
Steve_Mollett
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Quote:
On 2012-07-08 11:47, Woland wrote:
Doctor Benjamin Rush's observation that the victory at Yorktown did not end the American Revolution, but close only its first chapter.

He also bled people and treated mental illness with the Tranquilizer Chair, and by strapping the patient to a board and spinning them to make the blood rush to their head.

Yes, I know that was an ad hominum fallacy, but I just couldn't resist. Smile
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth.
- Albert Camus
mastermindreader
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Is that where the phrase "Getting a rush" came from?

:eek:
Woland
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Actually, Doctor Rush was a significant innovator in the British medicine of his time. Up until the late XVIIIth century, British physicians believed that there were basically 2 basic diseases, which we can characterize as "surfeit" or "excess" on the one hand, and "deficiency" on the other hand. Patients with "deficiency" were treated with stout, porter, rich food, and things like that to build them up. Patients with "excess" were treated with bleeding, purgative laxatives, and emetics.

Doctor Rush's innovation was to decide/recognize that even those illnesses which appeared to be due to a "deficiency" were actully caused by a "surfeit," and therefore ALL patients could be treated by purging and bleeding them.

And thus a 67 year old man with an acute febrile illness and sore throat, in December 1799, was treated by bleeding for a total loss of some 5 to 7 units of blood, and unsurprisingly, died peacefully.
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2012-07-08 11:09, mastermindreader wrote:
Quote:
When a government bureaucrat decides that you have already used up your Obamacare-guaranteed allotment of health care, there will be no appeal, and no alternative.


Haven't read the ACA have you? Fear mongering won't cut it. Caps on annual care are specifically prohibited.


"...a national health system wouldn't fix one of our health care system's main flaws—one that people really hate—the denial of service. It just changes who decides, so that the government makes the call."
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
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