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mr shiney Loyal user 266 Posts 
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Dynamike Eternal Order FullTimer 24148 Posts
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Potty, I know that was not easy. It really proves you are a real man. You are always going to be my friend.
I can see how some of it is worded a little strange. I can understand that is your humor. All the years you have been a helpful, encouraging, caring and comical person on the Café. We all make mistakes in our lives. No one is perfect. This started over a misunderstanding and got real big. I am glad to see everyone has put down their balloon swords. Eric is a new person to the Café. But he is not new with entertaining kids. He has been gifted extra for being a preschool teacher. He has been gifted extra for his "character" and "communication." I have a strong feeling those are his two major tools to why he gets more shows than most of us throughout the year. By Eric being himself with his communication and character I bet is how so many members supports him so fast on the Café. Okay everyone, group hug.  |
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charliecheckers Inner circle 1969 Posts
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Yes - I too am glad that we can have a fresh start. Potty - thank you for providing a summary of the learnings you took from GZ on this thread. I also learned a great deal from him, but you as well. Thanks for remembering to credit Brer Rabbit for his contribution to magical performances. I too have taken from him for my shows. Sadly, not everyone reads Uncle Remus any more.
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Gerry Walkowski Inner circle 1450 Posts
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Trust me when I say this. . . I’m not here to pick a fight with GZ or anyone else. I’m honestly trying to turn a new leaf here. I’ve moved on.
That said, I just wanted to respond to this one GZ quote: “If anyone you've seen is using the "whatever you do, don't do......they got this from my dvd or some video, somewhere of me. I guarantee this, don't short change me, because you want to act like I'm some dime a dozen entertainer that's doing other peoples stuff. Trust me on this, that stuff is mine, can other people use, yes, I don't care, but I came up with it.” As performers, we often think that we invent things until we discover 100 other people using the same lines and/or bits of business. This happens even with original magic tricks. I was surfacing through David Kaye’s 2005 Seriously Silly publication looking at his coloring book routine when I spotted this: “Because if you erase, I would have to color it in myself and I don’t want to do that. So don’t erase. What are you doing? Don’t erase.” The wording isn’t exact, but to me it’s the same concept. I'm sure David probably heard it from someone else. I’m just saying. Gerry |
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3171 Posts
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Potty, you had an out, but you failed to take it.
Still I guess that was better than nothing. Thanks for what little you did. I think someone already said it early, but a last thought on branding: 'You can't think outside the box until you get out of the box.' Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
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noland Veteran user 350 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-07-22 10:12, Gerry Walkowski wrote: I agree with you Gerry, I have heard this type of formulation before. I have also seen Zucchini's show. What Zucchini does that's original is develop this bit of business into an extended gag, where he provokes the kids into engaging in a whole string of silly actions, which they love, usally escalating into physical stunts like "don't start hopping around on one foot," and "don't start dancing," and then brings them all back under control again by one final don't--"don't sit down legs criss-crossed apple sauce." Basically, he creates a whole game out of the gag, which gets every child in the audience physically involved and has the advantage, in addition to be being lots of fun, of giving the kids an opportunity to burn up some restless energy. In my estimation, it's the way Zucchini has embellished the gag that is original (although he may also have reinvented it as well, as you suggest, and may not be aware of its antecedents). |
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Red Shadow  Inner circle 1788 Posts
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I couldn't get the video to work that was provided by George.
But I reckomend that we set up a children's entertainers competition at the next kidvention convention (or the one in September) and for everyone to put their money where their mouth is. Let's stop talking about who the best Is and find out for real. What would you consider to be the best marking system? Magic skill Originality Entertainment value Variety in effects Costume Presentation Interaction with the children Stage presence Showmanship What should be the approbate running time (10 minutes, 15 minutes) and should they get disqualified If they go under / over this? What criteria would be best? P.s. We could run the competition by videos uploaded onto YouTube... |
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Mr. Pitts Inner circle David Pitts 1058 Posts
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I thought I had 'invented' almost everything thing in my act, and like Tommy Tickle, I tried to create it 'in a vacuum' as much as possible. But I had already been exposed to years of classic comedy in movies, circuses, theatre, television etc.. so to be truly and completely original, entirely un-influenced was not actually possible. One thing I hadn't seen was other children's performers work, which I think worked in my favor. Later on, I did start buying books and DVD's specifically for children's entertainers. I had spent more than ten years performing before I started doing this though, so my STYLE and APPROACH were well established, so I was able to see what bits would work for me, what wouldn't, how to adapt a Silly Billy bit to my own style etc. I do try very hard to be original, but honestly, if someone who's work I admire sells a DVD with good ideas, I'm not ashamed of making use of their good ideas. Steve Petra's recent DVD was full of good inspiration, and his style is similar to mine, so I find his ideas readily adaptable. So, thanks to Steve, buy his "Let's Get Visual" DVD. Great stuff.
As for Potty's "apology", still dripping sarcasm, but I think I detected some glimmer of recognition that perhaps he had gone too far.. maybe. I'm moving on myself. I'm sure Potty's not a terrible person, he's creative, funny, just.. too hung up on having to be right. It's a weakness, like being a drunk or something. Many people enjoy a beer from time to time, some people don't know when to quit. |
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3171 Posts
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Steve I got a better idea. Let’s lock everyone up in a room full of preschoolers for 12 hours and see who really understands kids. My money is on GZ. Simply because you don’t understand how to control kids until they pull half your hair out.
Tom EDIT: Wooops, Sorry about that Steve. I just noticed you wearing a hat too.
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
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Potty the Pirate Inner circle 4632 Posts
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Ah, Mr Pitts, I think a lot of kidshow entertainers do it that way. I had many years' stage experience before I created "Potty the Pirate", so I already knew how to invent and market a plausible and entertaining character.
I certainly wrote my first several shows almost entirely without any outside help. Though my years in pantomime served me very well. It was largely through discovering this very forum, that I started to incorporate other folks' ideas. Of course, they were additional to my own thoughts, they didn't replace them. And wherever possible, I try to come up with new variations of other folks' material, whether gifted on the internet, or if I've bought them fair and square. As for your idea, Steve, well I have to admit, I'm not much of a fan of conventions. Nor am I a fan of competitions. When I work alongside other performers, I always like to heap praise on them, and either get them another big round of applause if I follow them, or introduce them with glowing compliments, to build up the expectation in the eyes of the audience. That said, if you want my opinion of the best marking system - simply ask the kids to vote, or give marks. They are the ones who really count, and have the ability to judge a performance based purely on how much they enjoyed it, rather than worrying about how magical or original it might be. And, Mr Pitts, "dripping sarcasm?" Thankfully, Dynamike, Charlie, and Tom have accepted my apology in the spirit with which it was written. To my chagrin, on another forum, GZ has already dismissed my apology. But, what more can I do? I have explained clearly and rationally how I think the conversation became an argument. That I was wrong to suggest that maybe GZ wasn't as good with kids' psychology as he claimed. And that I should rightfully have said that I was ignorant, because I didn't understand his advice better. Surely, I covered everything upon which we disagreed, and gave him credit for almost every point. I admit that I was being mildly sarcastic when I suggested that we should all "burn our books", and buy only GZ's products. But, that is because clearly, GZ's DVD's and books provide everything any kids' entertainer needs to know. So the rest is pretty much redundant. Of course, I didn't mean we should literally throw out all our collections of books and DVDs. Anyway, at least most folks can see the humourous nature of my apology, and realise that I genuinely believe GZ is one of the best entertainers for children ever known, if not THE best. I have given this matter due consideration, and the only logical conclusion I can draw, is that he is light years ahead of me, in almost every way. I simply can't "get" a lot of what he says, even now. But, since plenty of other folks can, that merely demonstrates my own lack of imagination and brilliance. Potty  |
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Red Shadow Inner circle 1788 Posts
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It wasn't understanding kids that lost me all my hair, it was trying to understand woman that did that!
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Ken Northridge Inner circle Atlantic City, NJ 2393 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-07-22 11:04, ku7uk3 wrote: I’m intrigued with your idea Steve but there are a multitude of flaws with it. What competition fair? Do you really think we can agree on the rules? We can’t agree on how to handle hecklers. I’m afraid a youtube competition would become more about who can edit better or who has the most gracious audience. And having kids vote? They are likely to vote for the last act they just saw because of their short memory. No, I think we are going to have to keep boasting about our skills here at the Magic Café….and may the biggest mouth win.
"Love is the real magic." -Doug Henning
www.KenNorthridge.com |
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Mr. Pitts Inner circle David Pitts 1058 Posts
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I recognize the humorous nature of the apology, but there's still plenty o' sarcasm. Look Potty, I don't expect you to say, sincerely, that GZ's the best ever or that his ideas are light years ahead of yours. There have been many things written here about the validity of different approaches. It's not that he's better than you or me. Maybe he is in some ways, as am I, as are you... but I don't think such comparisons are helpful. I always tell my kids that the recipe for unhappiness is to constantly compare yourself to other people, so I try to avoid that. It's that GZ tried some new things with quite a bit of success, so his ideas are worth our attention.
The only apology I think you owed him was for calling him a manipulator, liar and fraud. That was the only part of this that really crossed the line, everything else was a fair fight. Again, if your apology was intended as sincere and I didn't recognize that, then I'm sorry about that. I'm going to let this argument go. |
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Potty the Pirate Inner circle 4632 Posts
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I think GZ must be among the best ever, because those who have seen him work, and plenty of those who haven't, assure us that this is the case. Not to mention every one of his clients, who doubtless know the Messiah of kids' entertainment when they see him.
I think his ideas are light years ahead of mine, because again, many folks "get" what he says, but for the life of me, mostly I can't. Especially his thoughts about child psychology. So, I'm really not a match for him in this area. But, Mr Pitts, I most definitely didn't call GZ a manipulator, liar and fraud. I think it came across that way, because I said "if it turns out he doesn't own the RT for his stage name, then he is a manipulator, liar, and fraud." But, it turned out he most definitely does own the RT, so QED, my comment implies precisely the opposite: that he is NOT any of those things. And, I've gone so far as to say that adopting a stage name that was already a Registered Trademark, used by another performer at that time, was no big deal. A simple mistake, which anyone setting up a new and unique brand could easily make. He certainly has come up with lots of new ideas, as well as independently coming up with plenty of old ones. Potty |
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Mr. Pitts Inner circle David Pitts 1058 Posts
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Okayyyy okayyy, geez Potty, fine, ok.
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bishthemagish Inner circle 6013 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-07-20 13:54, The Great Zucchini wrote: Quote:
On 2012-07-20 13:54, The Great Zucchini wrote: Over the years and all the insults I have taken I have never asked for an apology. I also never found it hard to entertain kids with magic at all. It is "EASY". Entertaining kids is EASY - and booking kid shows and pre schools is EASY IN THE USA. All this "thinking outside the box" and the "my brand" an "branding" to be rather silly. My goal has never been to talk jargon to sound cool. My goal is only to provide a quality service (an entertaining show) that clients will "book back". I don't believe that is thinking outside the box or branding. I consider it “work” and part of the “job”. Cheers!
Glenn Bishop Cardician
Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs |
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Potty the Pirate Inner circle 4632 Posts
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Ken, I don't think kids would vote for the last act they saw. Give them more credit than that. They're more likely to vote for the first or second act, because after 40 minutes, they will easily get bored.
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The Mighty Fool Inner circle I feel like a big-top tent having 2140 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-07-22 11:04, ku7uk3 wrote: Ooooooooh......I LIKE!!! However, some thoughts: Costume should be axed as a criteria, since some kidshow guys just wear regular clothes, or minimal costume articles. This would be an easy category to 'cheat' on. Any points for costume could be included under 'presentation'. Stage-presence & showmanship are more or less the same thing IMHO. In addition to 'Interaction-with-the-children', how about 'Audience-reaction' as a category. I've seen too many guys who interacted with the kids but failed to get much response. 10-15 minutes?? I'd say 40 minutes is the bare minimum for a passable kid's show! Hmm....but then there would be a time-crunch....unless this was a 2 or 3 day thing... Youre spot-on about having to do this via video. It's really a shame it cant be done live, but I see no practical way to do it live, unless you have multiple audiences. You cant use the same audience for each performer due to 1) placement-advantage, and 2)effect-repetition. Mabye you could get a local elementary school or two, gather all the pk-3rd graders (3-8 yrs.), divide them equally for as many competitors as there are, then rotate them as the competitor's take turns. So I suppose it COULD conceivably be done live, but it would be quite a daunting task. Then there's the idea of 'age-classes'. What about if some competitors prefer to perform for the 9-12 range? Darn it....the more I think about this the harder it seems! But I still think it's an awesome idea, and I'm TOTALLY there if we do it!
Everybody wants to beleive.....we just help them along.
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Potty the Pirate Inner circle 4632 Posts
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Well. It's late here in the UK, and I was hoping GZ would post one final comment to entertain the masses before my bedtime. But, as it's late on a Sunday night, I propose to call the silliness to an end. No doubt, there has been much mirth around various forums, and I am quite delighted to have been a central part of it. I hope GZ feels the same way.
I suggest that Eric and I call a truce, or at least a cease-fire. We're both hard-working entertainers. To me, at least, it matters not a jot who is the "better" entertainer, nor who earns the most cash, or is likely to become the next best thing in kids' entertainment. And, all of this has been such fun, and evidently the most entertaining "argument" not just for me, but for many folks, in a long time. Time to finish off the popcorn, and let transmission resume as normal. Congratualtions, Eric, I would like to shake your hand, and say "well done" for being my partner-in-crime on this most delightful thread. And so to sleep, good night everyone. Potty |
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The Great Zucchini Inner circle 1347 Posts
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Potty, hopefully you're not in bed yet, because I just logged on, but anyway, absolutely, no one likes a good truce like I do. I don't know about you, but I feel like we might be letting people down if we don't add another 11 pages.
Gerry, read what you wrote, couldn't respond to now, but Noland is right. I guess I didn't know the ancestory of this particular "whatever you do', here's the thing, the way I use it, I believe is mine-concepts, but I guess I didn't invent it. I'm sorry for stating that, I just really thought I did. Lol. Listen, I've never gotten anthing off the internet, not my name(didn't know that guy existed, until he came to my show), I have watched the occasional youtube video of someone, but never added anything to my show from someone else-except the sponge ball routine, my friend Barry does. Since I've never take anything else, I just assumed I thought of it, and It was mine. I apologize for the arrogance in that. Mighty fool-you took the words out of mouth-I've actually never seen a costume that entertained the kids-yes the person in it, but never the costume. Speaking of costumes-I'm going to tell you that I see some amazing costumes out there-Jolly Rodgers, my bud from the Bistro has a great one. Here's the thing I'm not sure I mentioned-you know my theory much on why I don't wear one. It's just me, but my audiences can be so young, that when setting up in the room for the kid, when they are about to sit down, I don't want lots of colors, and balloons, and streamers over where I'm performing. The kids eyes are so busy, and constantly trained to look at anything appealing that even if you're doing a great show, a 4 year old can be looking at the big dragon you're standing in front of, the giant mural, maybe. I like my outfit to be boring, for the same reason. If I have many designs, and happy faces, and whatever, on my outfit, even though they are staring in the direction that I am, of course, when I think their watching, they could be circling the cool designs on my shirt. This may or may not be the case, it's what I like to do, before I start, I feel like I take everything from their porifiel vision and tunnel it. I find it imperative, but you may not. I just feel like it puts a person ahead of the 8 ball. I feel like I have to address many things on this thread, because I'm just getting to a computer now. Chance, loved your post. Yes, I believe I've never met anyone, myself included, where the next day, "why'd I say that'. We all say things that we regret, but what I love about your post is that you came in for a friend, and gave a terrific lesson, not in this fight, but something we could all remember going forward. Also, your stuff is phenominal, I never have ordered from you, but it doesn't mean I'm not a fan. You're immensenly talented. Potty, btw, I'm not sure who has the advantage, going first or last in the competition, but how would they get bored after 40 minutes-you could offer your 6 hour package-kidding. I keep scrolling up to see what else I missed-ok, now to the apology Potty-you've admitted to the sarcasm on this forum and the other forum-yes I detected tons of immediately, however, thank you and I accept it for things you've said more recently, I feel you do want things to calm down, and I do as well. For the record, I don't want us to be on eggshells around each other. I will comment on many threads, as I know you will. We will disagree. I think it's healthy, but we can do it without competing, etc. We aren't competition. We aren't even in the same country. Hey, would you admit I'm better if at your next school show, they were all chanting Zucchini. Man, would that be great. Joking, but that would be sweet. Lol. Does anyone reading this have one tear going down their cheek. Look, will yall hate me when I tell you that I'm logging off soon, so I can go watch the Bachlorette finale. Btw, I know a sweet venue for the competiton-Tom's preschool, We'd all have to book the flight to Missippi, but the winner gets reimbursted from everyone else. How's that? |
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Posted: Jul 22, 2012 09:25 am 
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