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rockwall Special user 762 Posts |
Anyway Glenn, be proud. How often can someone get everyone on BOTH the right AND the left to agree on something?
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rockwall Special user 762 Posts |
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On 2012-07-14 12:57, stoneunhinged wrote: Well, maybe 'almost' everyone. Back to the OP, this seems to pretty much sum up Glenn's position. I was thinking later comments made by Stoney argued against Glenn's position but in going back over the pages, I don't see any. So Stoney, fess up. Do you support Glenn's position? For someone starting a topic, you've been fairly quiet here. |
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Chessmann Inner circle 4242 Posts |
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On 2012-07-15 16:31, balducci wrote: Balducci, Woland made some historically accurate points - that doesn't mean the neutrality issue has nothing to do with it....nor does it mean that neutrality trumps everything else. It doesn't. The Swiss know how to protect themselves and their land. People aren't going to say, "Well, Switzerland has said they are neutral, so let's just not bother them." There be a WHOLE lot more to it than that.
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts |
Chessmann: I agree with you. But reread what Woland wrote. I was responding to that. Woland claimed to give the reason why nobody attacked Switzerland in a long time and nowhere in there did he give its neutrality any consideration whatsoever. He gave his reason, and it all has to do with Switzerland being (in his opinion) armed and dangerous.
Personally, I suspect that Switzerland's neutrality counts far more than its military strength. But Switzerland is also a very, very special case, as its reputation for neutrality goes back nearly 2 centuries.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
And, as tommy pointed out, almost everybody else keeps their money there so its kind of understood to be off-limits.
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
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On 2012-07-15 19:59, gdw wrote: Rape doesn't need retaliation. Yes, it does. If you don't bother anyone you won't EVEN have to worry about retaliating. Yes, you will. Failing to mention that you don't know how you'd respond to the Pearl Harbor attack is intellectually dishonest. No. There's nothing intellectual going on here to be dishonest about. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
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On 2012-07-15 23:07, balducci wrote: It is odd you try to speak with such authority but use the words "I suspect".
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts |
It is odd how you always try and start some sort of dispute.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Glenn has the 4 year old mentality that evil simply does not exist. Sorry but it does. It can not be ignored away. At times it shows up right in your house or your life and just introduced itself.
Obviously he has never had to deal with it. Good for him. I hope nobody would ever have too. But the world does not has not and will not work that way no matter how much you try to ignore it. What to do about it is a reasonable discussion. Ignoring it and putting blame on the victim is... I would say naive to be nice. But when you so dislike cops and.all forms of authority, despite rising and sleeping under the very blanket of protection they provide, you get jaded. Easy to be when you don't have to worry about standing between the evil and the innocent. I suggest trying it some time. Evil is quite determined to get what it wants. I heard that standing around ignoring it is a pretty good way to get more of evil. In the end anyone with the common sense granted a Billy goat knows this.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
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On 2012-07-15 23:45, balducci wrote: Just parsing every single word just like you do. I thought that was how to communicate. And always is an absolute. Generally those are wrong.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
There is another state that has never been invaded as far as I aware that just happens to gaurded by Swiss soldiers.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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stoneunhinged Inner circle 3067 Posts |
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On 2012-07-15 22:15, rockwall wrote: Remember the time zone difference. I go to bed and you guys go wild. No, I don't support Glenn's position. I consider retaliation a form of defense, and I'm all for defense. Like Landmark, I'm not a pacifist. I also think that in some cases would should assist others who are defending themselves. We should have gone to Europe earlier in both world wars. I've always thought that Hitler's biggest mistake was NOT invading Russia, but declaring war on the US. Had he been able to dissuade the Japanese from bombing Pearl Harbor, and had the US stayed out of the war, Hitler could have won, I think. As much as I admire Churchill, what really beat the Germans was American industrial capacity. Which leads to this thought: who, today, has the largest industrial capacity? Who has the most soldiers? So...anyone want to get rid of those nuclear missles just yet? |
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Woland Special user 680 Posts |
A German general, 100 0r 150 years ago, observing the Swiss national sharpshooting competition, allowed to a Swiss militiamen that the skills on display were quite formidable, but questioned what the Swiss would do if they were invaded by an army twice the size of their militia.
The Swiss thought for a moment, and then answered, thoughtfully, "Shoot twice; then go home." |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
They are pretty good with a crossbow so they tell.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts |
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On 2012-07-15 22:05, LobowolfXXX wrote: I'm not moving the goal posts, and that's not what I said. I said strong defense can be a bigger deterrent than retaliation. I was talking about one or the other, not both compared to just one. Of course using both would be more of a deterrent, but that alone doesn't justify retaliation, any more than nuking the entire country in retaliation would be justified. That would be much more of a deterrent.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts |
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On 2012-07-15 23:50, Dannydoyle wrote: Where have I said anything about ignoring it? Where am I blaming victims? The people killed at Pearl Harbor, and on 9/11 did nothing to cause the attacks. The group known as the government certainly did. As for police and authority, enough with the lying Danny. I respect legitimate authority, not arbitrary, or authority by diktat or fiat. I respect people providing legitimate, necessary services as well. This past week I actually had a very helpful and present interaction with two officers who were very helpfull.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts |
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On 2012-07-15 23:33, mastermindreader wrote: Asserting something doesn't make it true. Care to back up your statements? Why does rape NEED violence in response after the fact? I've never said there should be no response. I've only been saying attacking back after the fact is not necessary, and is not ethical. Defending yourself is one thing, using force to stop an aggressor, to stop a current attack or atrocity, is completely acceptable. The aggressor is in the wrong, stopping them is to restore order. Going after them after they are stopped is only introducing more disorder, moving away from homeostasis. It's is upsetting what has been calmed. That's not saying that things have been balanced. The aggressor certainly still owes restitution to the victim. That is different than going out of your way to harm the aggressor back. That is nothing more than revenge.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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Woland Special user 680 Posts |
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War is destructive, not constructive. That's quite true, Stone. But there is such a thing as "creative destruction," and there are some things that deserve to be destroyed. American independence was created by a war that destroyed the bonds that tied the colonies to the British Crown. The independence of Mexico, and of most of the countries of South America, also came through war. In the United States, the destruction of slavery came through war. The National-Socialist and Military-Imperialist regimes of Germany and Japan were ended through war. And to reach for an older example, Charles Martel checked the progress of the jihad at Poitiers - in battle. That's not to say that other conflicts were just plain stupid. The Great War -- World War I -- was a pointless bloodletting that destroyed Europe, paving the way for the Bolshevik revolution, the tyrannies of National-Socialism and Fascism, and is responsible in large measure for the existential malaise which has resulted in Europe's current death-throes - a demographic decline that will see major nationalities disappear within a century or so, unless things change fast. I think WWI may be just about the most pointless, tragic, useless war ever fought. |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
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On 2012-07-16 10:11, gdw wrote: You have stated many times that you viewed arrest and incarceration as a form of violence. It is, therefore, by your own definition, a form of retaliation. I disagree with your statement that the rapist need only make "restitution" to the victim. He needs to be jailed and punished. Call it retribution or revenge or whatever you like. It is necessary. |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts |
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On 2012-07-16 10:12, Woland wrote: So what does that make WWII?
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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