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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-07-14 16:29, Woland wrote: I agree with you a hundred percent. How does it feel to have the backing of a generally anti-war leftist like me? When attacked we must defend. That is, to my mind, the only time that war is justifiable. And our defense should be so definitive (withing the boundaries of the rules of war) that future attacks are severely discouraged. |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
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On 2012-07-14 16:36, Jonathan Townsend wrote: I think he's referring to the war that wasn't preceded by any other wars.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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Woland Special user 680 Posts |
Hi Bob,
Good thoughts, indeed! Quote:
I agree with you a hundred percent. How does it feel to have the backing of a generally anti-war leftist like me? It feels great. But greater coming from you, personally. (Remember, I was once a generally anti-war leftist, too. And I would say that I am still generally anti-war - as were Grant, Lee, and Wellington, as I mentioned, above.) Your comment that the response must be definitive is well within the tradition of the usual "American way of war," at least since Grant at Fort Donelson. The reason that Germany and Japan became peaceful, democratic nations was in large measure because they definitively understood what were the definitive consequences of their previous decisions. The failure to seek a definitive conclusion only prolongs the conflict and compounds the problem. |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
The First War aka "The War that Started all Wars," was fought approximately 2.5 million years ago in or around present day Ethiopia.
Little is known about it except that it was fought on a Thursday afternoon and had something to do with a stolen keeshka and a woman named Lucy who had been previously accused of playing "hide the keeshka" with members of a neighboring tribe. The owner of the keeshka was never identified. The historic event has been memorialized in song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Au_jJmsfdMs |
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Dr. Van Van Mojo Special user 570 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-07-14 16:13, Bill Hilly wrote: The Battle of Megiddo is the first battle that was recorded in detail and for posterity. Pharaoh Thutmose III's military scribe inscribed it in hieroglyphs at Thutmose's temple at Karnak, Thebes (now Luxor). Not only is this the first extant, detailed battle description, but it is the first written reference to the religiously important Megiddo: Megiddo is also known as Armageddon. Historically, Megiddo was an important city because it overlooked the route from Egypt through Syria to Mesopotamia. If an enemy of Egypt controlled Megiddo, it could block the pharaoh from reaching the rest of his empire. In approximately 1479 B.C., Thutmose III, pharaoh of Egypt, led an expedition against the prince of Kadesh who was in Megiddo. The prince of Kadesh (which is on the River Orontes), backed by the king of Mitanni, made a coalition with the heads of Egypt's vassal cities of northern Palestine and Syria. Kadesh was in charge. After forming the coalition, the cities openly rebelled against Egypt. In retaliation, Thutmose III attacked. |
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Bill Hilly Elite user 449 Posts |
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On 2012-07-14 17:00, LobowolfXXX wrote: Yes, that's what I meant. But I fear it might turn the thread into a theological one. Something I didn't intend. But if it's possible to refer to only universally accepted history documents, that would be the war I meant. |
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Bill Hilly Elite user 449 Posts |
Quote: On 2012-07-14 17:13, mastermindreader wrote: |
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Bill Hilly Elite user 449 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-07-14 17:20, Dr. Van Van Mojo wrote: |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
As an addendum to my previous post it should be noted that the so-called "Keeshka War" is sometimes also known as the "Everybody Loves Lucy and That's the Problem War."
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts |
Ok, there is a BIG difference between "defence" and "retaliation."
Don't kid yourself into thinking the former justifies the latter.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-07-14 13:38, Woland wrote: 9/11 was retaliation. History did not start that day. The people who did it died the same day. A better response might have been to, oh, I don't know, maybe STOP killing people in foreign countries. NOT going into MORE countries, and killing MORE people.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
"The people who did it died the same day."
Amazing how you forget about those who planned and ordered the attack. They are equally "the people who did it." Are you seriously suggesting that soldiers are responsible for the war? |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-07-14 17:05, Woland wrote: Please, you are not anti-war. Face it, you glory in it, and feel it is often necessary. You do not see war as a "last resort." For both Bob and yourself: I was not just talking about the tactics and strategy of the war on Afghanistan and Iraq. I am talking about the totally criminal nature of waging war on peoples who have not attacked you! Critter, the ICC
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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Bill Hilly Elite user 449 Posts |
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On 2012-07-14 17:20, Dr. Van Van Mojo wrote: Man, I wrote a good reply to this, but it didn't show up. Honest. Anyway, I said that I was impressed if you actually knew that vs. giving it a wiki look. I didn't know any of that, but then my kin hail from Bug Tussle which is a fer piece from Egypt. Thanks for the info. |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
And I'm only talking about waging defensive war on those who have attacked us.
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-07-14 17:46, mastermindreader wrote: If you are waging it on them, it's not defence.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-07-14 17:43, mastermindreader wrote: Didn't forget about them at all. The people who actually killed thousands on that day are all dead. I'm not ignoring the responsibility of those otherwise involved. Just saying killing hundreds of thousands of people was not the correct response.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
You can't make an omelette without breaking eggs
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-07-14 17:46, mastermindreader wrote: Saddam Hussein attacked us? Really? Why not hit Canada while we're at it, and be done with it for once and for all? The attackers were 15 Saudis, two from the UAE, one Egyptian and one from Lebanon. They were funded by the Saudi princes, but even then dropping bombs on the innocent Saudi people would be a last resort. The Taliban was basically created by the Pakistan ISI, which in turn is funded by the US, so why not drop bombs on the White House? Critter, my reply to you got cut off about the ICC--as long as the biggest criminals refuse to abide by its decisions, and other countries have no real enforcement powers against them, it's kind of pointless.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-07-14 17:59, gdw wrote: If a private army from a neighboring village conducts a sneak attack on your sovereign anarchist cooperative and, after destroying everything and killing a bunch of your people, they run back to their village promising to return again tomorrow, it is not self-defense to take proactive measures to assure they are unable to do it again? |
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