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ddyment Inner circle Gibsons, BC, Canada 2499 Posts |
I just finished reading yet another e-book riddled with errors that could have been easily fixed by a decent copyeditor. I find it disheartening that so many authors take so little pride in their own writing that they fail to have it reviewed (by someone competent, not one of their good friends who took an English class once) prior to publishing. It's even worse when they convince themselves that their one-effect "masterpiece" is worth $40 because of the brilliance of its ideas. Which they then present poorly.
Please, if you fancy yourself an author, engage a decent copyeditor. If you (or your English major buddy) can't find at least ten distinct errors in the following (admittedly contrived) sentence, then you are unqualified to copyedit anything, especially your own writing. Its a technique which Anneman recommended, takes less than 5 minutes practise, and it consistently fools my brother and I whenever we see it performed. If you do spot the (many) errors in this sentence, please don't post them here, as that would defeat the purpose of this exercise for others. If you don't, ask a good copyeditor.
The Deceptionary :: Elegant, Literate, Contemporary Mentalism ... and More :: (order "Calculated Thoughts" from Vanishing Inc.)
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DrTodd Inner circle 1976 Posts |
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Andre Hagen Inner circle 1432 Posts |
As a former Grammar Host and editor of a popular trilogy of magic books, I can attest to the fact that most magic literature contains rampant grammatical and spelling errors.
Whether it's a book, ebook or instructions for an effect no proofreading is evident. This is apparent here on the Café as well. Generally if one reads their post before submitting it errors will be obvious. If your spelling is poor...use spellcheck. Andre
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein
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Slim King Eternal Order Orlando 18012 Posts |
I have some very old magic manuscripts and guess what??????
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
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Steven Keyl Inner circle Washington, D.C. 2630 Posts |
Not everyone is as consciencess as we.
Steven Keyl - The Human Whisperer!
B2B Magazine Test! Best impromptu progressive Ace Assembly ever! "If you ever find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause, and reflect." --Mark Twain |
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
I agree to an extent, however...
the average reading age is seven years old... could be that (especially on forums) there is a problem in some way, dyslexia and so on... also, and after being on a two day workshop recently about writing and how language is evolving - that how we punctuate is changing too... you may well be behind the times with what you may or may not consider to be "correct" punctuation! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7E-aoXLZGY EDIT - copy editor is two words...
I've asked to be banned
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WDavis Inner circle 1276 Posts |
Iain,
I was of the understanding that people read at an 8th grade (approx 13-14yrs of age) level. Where did you get seven years old? Thanks, W |
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Jon W. Loyal user 228 Posts |
I even have a published magic book on my shelf littered with so many errors it almost became unreadable. I was shocked. Don't know what happened in that instance.
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David Numen Inner circle 2070 Posts |
The fact that reading age may be 7 years old or perhaps 13/14 shouldn't be an excuse to peddle any old badly written guff though. As purveyors of the mysteries of the mind I think it behooves us to make more of an effort.
You let standards slip and others follow by that example. |
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
Beg pardon, it was 9 years old (just checked my notes)...
http://www.literacytrust.org.uk/research......e_nation and the woman who was our tutor during the course works a lot with governmental departments, big finance companies and universities throughout the UK... http://www.literacytrust.org.uk/adult_li......_england http://www.literacytrust.org.uk/news/416......ed_today
I've asked to be banned
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-07-15 15:39, David Numen wrote: again, partly agree! there's other factors to bear in mind I think....elements of shame, not knowing how to approach others, that kinda thing... I'm not excusing sloppy prose or just "bashing it out", I just don't think its a black and white situation...1 in 10 people in the UK have some form/level of dyslexia for example...
I've asked to be banned
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David Numen Inner circle 2070 Posts |
Well, for me I think anyone releasing a work should absolutely, definitely know someone who can help make that work better. I don't think it's shame - I know of one author notorious for rehashes and bad research who just won't take a telling when he's advised either the idea isn't great or has been done before. I think some people just push on and form a mental block - and of course because others have got away with it, they think it's OK too.
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ddyment Inner circle Gibsons, BC, Canada 2499 Posts |
Reading level has nothing to do with copyediting. Something written for a lower comprehension level needs copyediting just as much as an academic journal article.
Ditto for the writings of dyslexic authors. "Copyedit" and its related words can optionally be written as two words, or hyphenated. The copyeditors I know spell it as I do. My rant was not referring to casual writing such as blog posts, but on written products intended for sale.
The Deceptionary :: Elegant, Literate, Contemporary Mentalism ... and More :: (order "Calculated Thoughts" from Vanishing Inc.)
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
Probably an Americanism then...over here its more often than not two words, or as you say, hyphenated...
and as I said in my posts, I partially agree...i just think that if someone has released a small ebook on something, there might be another cause or reason other than simple laziness...
I've asked to be banned
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dmkraig Inner circle 1949 Posts |
Andre, while using a spelling checker is good, it is only a good start. Even if you run a manuscript through a spell checker it can't correct for grammar, proper word use, etc.
On of the major problems is that a writer knows what he or she is trying to say and then reads what he or she thinks is there rather than the actual words. That's why have a good copy editor is vital. This isn't something new. I have old Bob Nelson and U.F. Grant manuscripts that look like they were created on poor-quality typewriters and were not edited at all. Today, however, with the massive increase of available information, if you don't want to offend consumers what you write should be written well and look excellent. Attention: Microsoft Word is a word processing application, not a typesetting application. Doug, I would make at least seven changes to your sample sentence. How many do you think should be made? |
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David Numen Inner circle 2070 Posts |
My last book went thru about a year or editing before it was ready for release. My wife, who knows a thing or several about grammar, always has first dibs on changing my words to make more sense. I also have a mentor in mentalism who had agreed to edit the thing and it was a long difficult process. Life got in the way for both of us of course as it always does but beyond that entire pages were scrapped, ideas tweaked...it was hard but valuable. In the end it's a better book for that. I wonder if many who release have the guts to put themslves through that - it's not easy on the ego!
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Shrubsole Inner circle Kent, England 2455 Posts |
Well, for me, (Start badly and carry on) all I care about after paying for an effect is that it is communicated to a sufficient standard that can be understood.
I don't mine a grammatical error as I would probably not spot it if it wasn't extremely bad and the odd spelling mistake is neither here nor there really. Also a lot or style can be communicated in imperfect grammar and that would be lost if forced to comply too strictly with a set of rules. I much prefer people to write as they speak and communicate what they are trying to get across rather than pay $40 for an English class. (I have not read this back and so it will be full of mistakes, but I'm sure that anyone can understand what I have said and that says it all)
Winner of the Dumbringer Award for total incompetence. (All years)
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David Numen Inner circle 2070 Posts |
There are two side to the argument to be sure - I am a great fan of the late Joe Riding and he definitely wrote the way he spoke! The key is to communicate clearly. However it's a different world, even just 20 years on. There are plenty of people around who can help - I feel it's lack of effort. And for me it's annoying and sometimes laughable (especially when the writer performs as someone with heightened mental ability rather than supernatural powers) to read some stuff out there.
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Joshua Quinn Inner circle with an outer triangle 2054 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-07-15 16:51, Shrubsole wrote: I did understood the gist of what you were trying to say... eventually. But in order to do that, I had to re-read parts of it, and then at some points just take a guess as to what I thought you were probably getting at. In other words, deciphering meaning from your words has cost me more time than if they had been more clearly and carefully written. I value my time. You apparently do not value my time, because if you did, you would have gone to the minimal effort to make your meaning more clear. That makes me a lot less inclined to want to read what you write. This is the thing that people writing anything for public consumption need to understand. If you put out something sloppily written, then the message you send to your readers is, "I value my time more than I value yours. I have better things to do than spend my time making sure my thoughts are expressed clearly. So instead I'm just gonna blurt out something semi-coherent, and then leave it to you to figure it out while I go watch TV." Of course if that's the message you want to send, you're certainly allowed to. But if it's not, then it will be worth your while to make sure you're not sending it unintentionally.
Every problem contains the seeds of its own solution. Unfortunately every problem also contains the seeds of an infinite number of non-solutions, so that first part really isn't super helpful.
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
"[It's] silly to spend six months writing a novel when you can buy one for two dollars and ninety five cents."
-Gracie Allen |
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