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KevinWisch Regular user 193 Posts |
Seeing as how the other topics have been magically "locked", on the Criss Angel broadcast, I offer one insight.
I am ashamed at the "artists" who associated themselves with such a broadcast. Magic, as I grew up with it and know it, is almost dead. Period. As a marketer, who is MUCH more qualified than any of these self-proclaimed "experts" who "market" magic, if magicians feel that a broadcast such as that is interesting or on target, then magic is in a very, very sad state. All involved should be ashamed. End of story. |
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Ekuth Inner circle Floating above my 1538 Posts |
It's only dead if we allow it to die.
I for one, will not let that happen.
"All you need is in Fitzkee."
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Zombie Magic Inner circle I went out for a beer and now have 8733 Posts |
Criss has a base that he's playing to. It's like Adam Sandler plays to his base. I don't fault either for tapping into a part of the population that is attracted to what they do.
I'd say a majority of Café members look at magic as an art and had their ears assaulted by a "magic frat party". When rock and roll showed up in the 50's, many adults thought popular music was ruined ( Frank Sinatra being one of them ). Many America artists blamed the Beatles for starting the British Invasion and ruining their careers ( Ben E. King felt that way ). There are plenty of Magi like Brother Ekuth that will maintain the dignity of the art. In hands like that, the art is safe. |
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KevinWisch Regular user 193 Posts |
Fair points, on the surface. Notice I entitled it "almost" dead. My experience also supercedes most likely 99.9% of the magic community when it comes to marketing and finding target audiences who will take interest in a product.
That said, the difference here lies in the fact that this was not art and it lacked both dignity and class. (There is little art in jello-wrestling and foul language). Rock and Roll was an art, and The Beatles were artists. You cannot be realistically comparing this drivel with huge paradigm shifts that were major parts of history, can you? Last night's broadcast wasn't art, in fact, it cheapens it by adding obvious marketing gimmicks and unneeded entendre. These guys are no Beatles and no Rock and Roll. My point was merely that if the majority of the magic community likes or accepts the broadcast from yesterday, then there is no doubt a paradigm shift is occurring. One that, in my opinion, heads in the wrong direction. |
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Zombie Magic Inner circle I went out for a beer and now have 8733 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-07-15 23:45, KevinWisch wrote: I wasn't comparing. I was citing that your views about Criss's magic party are similar to what many people felt about Rock and Roll, The Beatles, etc. As passionate as you are in your views about Criss's party, folks in the 50's and 60's were just as passionate about their views. I think the Rolling Stones were a glorified garage band. I never understood what anyone saw in them, let alone calling them the greatest rock and roll band in history. I've know people that will come to blows over that. lol. John Lennon on Mick and The Stones: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-b3fRisu50 |
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videoman Inner circle 6732 Posts |
Kevin, while I can appreciate your obvious passion, IMO you are over-reacting. I have not watched the show yet, but I don't believe that the majority of the magic community (or the public at large for that matter) prefers that style of broadcast and performance at this point in time. Some will like it, others won't. Creating new styles and ways of doing things is part of human nature. Doesn't mean the style of magic you prefer is dead or dying, at least not that quickly. But even if it were, things change and time marches on. Like you, I sometimes would prefer that certain things didn't change. But it doesn't mean that those new things aren't valid. There is no right and wrong when it comes to personal preference or taste. In the end, the majority wins, period. But I doubt that magic as we now know it will drastically change much in the next 30 years. It is changing, but pretty gradually. But eventually it will no doubt be performed much differently than it is today, and I guarantee you that there will be many folks pining for the "good old days". Like it or not, that's true with most everything and is just a fact of life.
So try and calm down and support and enjoy those things which you like, and don't worry about the rest. Just my .02, Bill |
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KevinWisch Regular user 193 Posts |
Well said.
Bottom line: If people think that jello-wrestling, profanity, tatooing random people, etc. is "art" then so be it and your points ring true. My perspective remains that magic is in a sad state of affairs if, in fact, that is the case. Silence is consent. If the magic community stays silent, then they condone their major outlets, including themagiccafe, promoting these types of events. Who am I to question the majority? It is with sadness though, that I simply could not stay silent at what was so obviously a distasteful charicature on what magic is perceived to be in today's society. And if indeed perception is reality, then it is no wonder magic is a joke and laughed at by most of the people who come in contact with it. Nevertheless, I will continue to watch the community evolve until the community believes, in majority, that the type of "show" that we saw yesterday is, in fact, art. When that day comes, the paradigm shift is completed. Then, I'll simply "dissapear." I wouldn't be surprised if many others who share my point of view, do the same. |
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KevinWisch Regular user 193 Posts |
Quote:
So try and calm down and support and enjoy those things which you like, and don't worry about the rest. Bill, my previous post above should touch on your good points. However, and do trust that I say this with utmost respect: who said I was uncalm? Passionate yes. Uncalm? Not in the least. We should share war-stories if you think I need to "calm down". I do, however, appreciate the rest of your post. |
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Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
I agree, magic has changed, because of the increased population and marketing to the masses for, what else, profit. Magic is no longer a "hidden" art that only if you meet the right people or visit an brick and mortar store you can trip over discovering it.
If you remember the very truthful line in the move "The Prestige", never tell a secret to a trick, because if you do, you are nothing to them. As you can see that is exactly what is happening, secrets are revealed and they leave or tell the world on YouTube. So they show no respect to Magic or themselves. So all we have to do is distance ourselves from the ones that want to invent tricks for profit and not for great magic. We should also keep out those that are not magicians, and let them buy all the new junk on the market, not to perform, as they only watch an instruction video and then grade it by their lack of knowledge and experience. Just as the old saying, Oh, you have to visit a real magic shop to buy real magic. It will be necessary, to say, you have to visit a real magic site where professional advice will grow and nurture the person. |
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Kent Wong Inner circle Edmonton, Alberta, Canada 2458 Posts |
Hmm ... I remember when Doug Henning broke through the magic scene, everyone was in shock over his performing style and manner of dress. But now, in hindsight, he is often cited as breaking through the barriers and creating incredible opportunities for magicians who followed after him. One person's mud wrestling may be another person's art.
Kent
"Believing is Seeing"
<BR>______________________ <BR> <BR>www.kentwongmagic.com |
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Jim Sparx Inner circle Far Out, Texas 1144 Posts |
If anything is killing magic, it is the animosity between performers, between hobbyist and pros, between mentalism and magic, and the blatant thievery.
Et tu, Spartacus?
https://fineartamerica.com/profiles/chispadeelpaso.html |
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Atom3339 Inner circle Spokane, WA 3242 Posts |
They said Lazarus was dead also.
He did stink for awhile.
TH
Occupy Your Dream |
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KevinWisch Regular user 193 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-07-16 12:24, Kent Wong wrote: Sounds good Kent. I suspect I'll see you mud-wrestling then in an upcoming performance? That will be a performance I will go out of my way to miss. Now, will Mr. Brooks please "lock" this thread like he did the others? I have made my points (very well I might add) and there is no use in having useless banter continue. You either believe the broadcast was tasteful, or, tasteless. I have made my opinion known. Kevin |
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Michael Baker Eternal Order Near a river in the Midwest 11172 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-07-15 18:39, KevinWisch wrote: Apparently not.
~michael baker
The Magic Company |
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Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
Kevin, you must have a misconception about the Café, it is a forum not a blog.
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Ekuth Inner circle Floating above my 1538 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-07-16 02:23, KevinWisch wrote: An excellent point, Kevin, and mine exactly. I stand by my original statement on the other, now locked, thread. The trouble here specifically, is that *when* the community at large expresses their displeasure with fiascos such as the event in question and the promotion of said non-event... they shortly find their intelligences called into question, their opinions discounted and all relevant threads rapidly locked in order to prevent any futher discourse that is not in keeping with the official opinion(s) held by others. I expect this thread shall rapidly fall prey to this same unfortunate practice. @Bill: With respect, Kevin's comments have been entirely appropriate for a forum. I would draw your attention to the etymology of the term; From the Random House Dictionary (excerpted): Forum (n): 1. A court or tribunal: the forum of public opinion. 2. An assembly, meeting place, television program, etc., for the discussion of questions of public interest. From the Collins English Dictionary (excerpted): 1. A meeting or assembly for the open discussion of subjects of public interest. 2. A medium for open discussion, such as a magazine. 3. A public meeting place for open discussion. Therefore, Kevin is quite correct in his usage of this media; as are all others who post opinions for others to discuss. Perhaps some are more vociferous than others, but that is beside the point. I would, in closing, point out the recurring emphasis on the phrase "open discussion" in the definitions given above. *That* is the defining difference between a forum and a blog. And having thus tendered my opinion(s) on the matter(s)... I wish you ladies and gentlemen a good day. *tips hat*
"All you need is in Fitzkee."
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KevinWisch Regular user 193 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-07-16 13:59, Michael Baker wrote: Mr. Baker- Your point sir? It was/is most certainly the end of my point and my perspective and I continue to stand by it. Your comment added no valuable perspective, insight, or original thought on the matters. Congratulations Quote:
On 2012-07-16 14:17, Ekuth wrote: Ekuth, well said. I have nothing else to add, except that if anyone was seriously "questioning my intelligence" (and I don't believe they were)- then this became more amusing than I thought it would With that, I think I'll bid "adieu" to this as well, having made my points crystal clear. Kevin |
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-07-16 14:17, Ekuth wrote: That's all well and good, except that this- Quote:
Now, will Mr. Brooks please "lock" this thread like he did the others? I have made my points (very well I might add) and there is no use in having useless banter continue. reads as "I've stated my opinion, now I'd like everyone else to shut up so I don't have to hear theirs." As for the broadcast, didn't see it so can't comment.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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ClintonMagus Inner circle Southwestern Southeast 3997 Posts |
I think the reason the other thread was locked is that the powers-that-be heard the opinions of the masses and made adjustments accordingly. The "horse" was dead and didn't require any more beating.
Things are more like they are today than they've ever been before...
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Zombie Magic Inner circle I went out for a beer and now have 8733 Posts |
Apparently FISM had the same type of lewd, Inappropriate "magic" acts:
http://www.geniimagazine.com/forums/ubbt......r=270268 |
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