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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9982 Posts |
One problem (for me) is that "Mentalism" and related terms mentioned above all relate to "entertainment" in some fashion. The Dr. says, why young people are being attracted to becoming 'mentalists' ?" What if they are seeking a better understanding of the unknown including themselves? Where do they go to learn of "natural" abilities considered "other than normal" by culture or lazy thinking? What if they begin to recognize the prison of dogmatism and wish a different view of reality?
If they explore such things from the view of "entertaining people" under any name they may never discover what they seek -- accepting another type of dogmatism. It is my life-long experience that interaction with people, nature and imagination leads to many "things observed but unexplained." We desire understanding, but lacking that, a level of comfort with uncertainty. We act out control of such things through religion, magic (conjury and mentalism), fantasy and messing around with the lives of others. This 'pretending" should better prepare us for dealing with "inexplicable phenomenology" when encountered, and possibly increase our awareness of it. So, how about those who explore magic and mentalism and spirituality and interpersonal relations, etc. not for "entertainment" but to better deal with reality? In a wold of chaos, what draws young people to seek answers in "strange corners?" Could be that they think you'all have real answers.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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Cervier Inner circle France 1274 Posts |
I don't believe the line should be drawn between mentalists and readers because of their methods or the theme they use. Not if they (we) are all entertainers, like magicians are, wether they use cards or cut elephants in halves...
I believe the difference is in the intention: is it entertainement or some kind of "therapy"? For instance, the main purpose of a standard Q&A is entertainement, even though -of course- the sitters should "feel something real". On the other hand, a reader saying "I'll tell you about your future to help you take decisions" is doing a different job altogether. Mind you, I'm not saying one is right and the other wrong, it doesn't matter for the difference we're trying to find. Think of hypnosis. You wouldn't open the same forum for those who do it on stage (entertainement purpose) and those who do it to achieve some kind of therapy ("health" purpose). Same techniques (more or less) but different goals: not the same job, not the same forum.
"A friend is someone who know you well but loves you anyway" H. Lauwick
The Lynx Deck, http://jmmaries.free.fr/cervier/ Grapheeteez, on GooglePlay Telemos the peek envelope, on SkywardMagic Telemos en Francais sur TheMysteryStore |
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kinesis Inner circle Scotland, surrounded by 2708 Posts |
I am a mentalist (well psychological Illusionist) and a Tarot reader. I don't claim any paranormal abilty in either of my guises.
Derek |
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JohnWells Inner circle The Southern Wild 1791 Posts |
I'm a reader (a psychic reader if the distinction matters, but not a medium) who does card tricks. I do not consider myself a mentalist.
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garett Regular user 142 Posts |
For me, and only me personally, I prefer "psychological illusionist." It sets a different tone from "magician", which I want to do ONLY because I don't want to perform at an all ages event to have the emcee say "The Magician is here" followed by every single child venturing over to my corner while the adults bugger off to get a drink. Not to mention for marketing it sets me apart from all the rabbit pullers and wand wavers.
The "illusionist" puts me right back at magician, however, which is what I want. I don't want anyone thinking for a moment that I have any sort of actual powers, not even like Patrick Jane. Because let's face it, there are tricks to everything we do, even the stuff that's straight up psychological (the only exception being if you are framing your demonstration as exactly what it is, with no "outs"). Patrick Jane even represents a super-hero-esque version of what a mentalist can really do as a regular human being. In fact, that's another reason I don't want to market myself as a "mentalist", because it might set false expectations for people familiar with the show. (As an aside I know that probably sucks to people who have been marketing themselves as a "mentalist" for years and years, and you'd be absolutely correct to say you "shouldn't have to change", but this is a business. And like all businesses you either adapt or die). And the "psychological" suggests that instead of hot assistants, flashy costumes, lights, sound, pyrotechnics etc. the illusions that I do are more cerebral and take place more in your brain as opposed to your eyes. |
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Davit Sicseek Inner circle 1818 Posts |
Amongst the general UK public, being a mentalist means being mad. Nobody uses the term mentalism at all.
I suppose a few people have seen the US TV show The Mentalist; but other than that, the only mentions of the word are in very occassional public performances where somebody mentions being a mentalist - but then immedtialy follows it up with talk about how it doesn't mean they are mad, but rather that they can do Derren Brown stuff. The Mentalist is not a popular show in the UK, I'd guess the percentage of the general public that know what mentalism is by name would number in the single digits. Perhaps the low single digits. I'd wager that many people only start using the word mentalism when they start searching for it online and see the word attached to the pages they discover. Psychic entertainment often seems like a euphemism for fraudulent psychic behaviour. Psychic entertainment has an image problem, perhaps because I don't see people using the psychic presentation in the course of standard mentalist. Only people doing readings, clairvoyance and the like. No member of the public enjoys going to see "psychic entertainers" rather they enjoy seeing "psychics". And they enjoy it in the same way that one might enjoy visiting a jovial and comedic doctor or dentist. I don't see why a magic forum would have a section for "readers" - so many here are forever talking about how reading is a whole other kettle of fish and that they don't use trickery and just interpret oracles and that it helps people give meaning and understanding to their lives and so on. Seems like the last thing the magic Café would want. Maybe you should find a counselling forum that will add a section for readers.
Send me the truth: davitsicseek@gmail.com
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Mind illusionist Special user Australia 949 Posts |
Okay mixed responses here. Im not even sure if some of you were answering my post... but thanks to anyway! I shall consider this all thoughtfully for awhile.
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Mind illusionist Special user Australia 949 Posts |
Okay mixed responses here. Im not even sure if some of you were answering my post... but thanks to anyway! I shall consider this all thoughtfully for awhile.
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ALEXANDRE Inner circle 3024 Posts |
In my experience you can call yourself whatever you want, Magician, Mentalist, Psychic, Clown, Retired CIA Officer, Alien ... the proof of the pudding is in what you do.
If you call yourself a Magician who is doing a lot of hypnosis stuff, you'll be known as some kind of Hypnotist. If you call yourself a Psychic while doing obvious magic tricks, you'll be known as a Magician. If you call yourself a Magician while doing readings, you'll be known as a Reader (or Psychic Reader) If you call yourself a Mystery Performer while fire eating and swallowing razor blades, you'll be known as some kind of Freak. You get the idea. It matters somewhat on advertising, but even so, look at David Blaine, Derren Brown, Max Maven, Kreskin, Uri Geller ... ask around (non-magicians) how they would label these people, and you'll surely get a couple of different answers regardless of what they like to call themselves. It's what you do that ultimately matters, so call yourself whatever you like to be called. I like to call myself ... Handsome.
HERE'S A SECRET ...
http://www.lybrary.com/mystic-alexandre-m-354.html |
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Mike Maturen Inner circle Michigan's Beautiful Sunrise Side 2726 Posts |
As one who DOESN'T do "mentalism"in my show (although I am starting to incorporate it), I have a few thoughts (no pun intended).
In reality, ALL of magic and illusion have an aspect of mentalism, in that we use psychological principles to create the illusion in the minds of the audience. Likewise, Mentalism has an aspect of magic and illusion in it, in that you use aspects of misdirection, etc to create the outcomes and answers you desire. That being said...I think the best title for what you do is wrapped up in the screen name one of the participants in this thread uses: "MIND ILLUSION". Perfect!
Mike Maturen
World of Wonder Entertainment The Magic and Mayhem of Mike Maturen 989-335-1661 mikematuren@gmail.com AUTHOR OF "A NEW DAWN--Weekly Wisdom From Everyday Life" member: International Magician's Society |
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DekEl Inner circle Creates MindTricks. Has exactly: 1172 Posts |
I concur with the idea of creating a forum just for readers. It would stop a lot of the slamming, and it's close enough related that it would be really good to have.
I came to mentalism as a faction of magic as I was never as much into sleights as some of my fellow performers, but I can see why it's started to become a bit of a harbor for those with superiority complexes.
You can purchase my works at: http://www.GetMindTricks.com
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
I'm happy to see that I remain one of the few who calls himself a mind reader. It's what I do and it is how the audience perceives it.
As one of the founders of the Psychic Entertainers Association, I can tell you that the term 'psychic entertainer' was coined and selected because it is an umbrella phrase that covers all PERFORMERS whose who demonstrate primarily mental, i.e. 'psychic,' rather than physical mysteries. It was never intended to be a term used to describe ourselves to the public. If we'd have called ourselves the "Mentalists Association," or the "Mind Readers Association," that would have excluded hypnotists, bizarrists, psychological presenters, etc. Psychic Entertainment, then, is an inclusive term that covers many different aspects of the mystery arts. Good thoughts, Bob |
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JanForster Inner circle Germany ... when not traveling... 4190 Posts |
Bob, I see you are online, see you soon in Vegas ... Jan
Jan Forster
www.janforster.de |
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Mr Timothy Gray Veteran user Rue d'Auseil 364 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-11-09 12:25, mastermindreader wrote: And isn't it sad that the second part of that term, 'Entertainment', is often the most overlooked?
Yr. Obdt. Svt.,
Mr Timothy Gray Specializing in the Occult Arts of Fortune Telling, Magic & Mediumship; Est. 1986 |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
I'm a bit fumble fingered this morning. The third line down in my previous post should have read:
"...it is an umbrella phrase that covers all PERFORMERS who demonstrate primarily mental, i.e. 'psychic,' rather than physical mysteries." |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-11-09 13:29, Mr Timothy Gray wrote: I agree. |
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Danyel Loyal user Italy 293 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-11-09 12:25, mastermindreader wrote: I personally don't have a definite opinion on the matter -it is also more complicated in other languages, like Italian- but I have a question, Bob. When PEA was founded, did you prefer 'psychic' over 'mystery' for a definite reason?
'People who lean on logic and philosophy and rational exposition
end by starving the best part of the mind' -William Butler Yeats |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
"Mystery" didn't really fit for hypnotists, and also conjured up some pretty funny images. (Who is tonight's Mystery Entertainer?) "Psychic" seemed better to us at the time simply because it literally means "of the mind."
We did have long discussions about it and "psychic entertainer" was basically the result of compromise. |
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Dr Spektor Eternal Order Carcanis 10781 Posts |
Beats Psionic entertainers (unless you are a Mind Flayer)
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
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SIX Inner circle New York City 1772 Posts |
As someone who is young(24 as of wednesday)...What I found was this...
I have been in magic for ten years, and have been honored to be able to perform around the world. While traveling there is usually three spectrums of performance..Close up, Illusions or some kind of stand up show...When performing for adults, mentalism is usually a better option then stand up magic. A cut and restored rope is great and all, but reading someones mind is just amazing. For me, it allowed me to perform for larger crowds..Most stand up magic kind of loses effect at around say 800 people, but mentalism can be performed for thousands in many ways. Its kind of the balance for traveling, large scale performance, budgeting, and much more. But then again that's just me, I think with Derrens work as Mr. Cassidy mentioned, he has a huge influence. Plus, mentalist gets more respect then when you say magician I believe, its stereo typed. |
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