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Bob Parnez
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Out of all of the gimmicked coins you know of, which one do you think is the most amazing to spectators?

Also, which coin do you think is the hardest trick to figure out if you were a magician, and didn't know the secret?
sleightofhander
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The shell of any denomination will always amaze. Smile
Jonathan Townsend
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[Amended slightly to assist the facile. 10/20/03]

A gimmick [itself] is not likely to affect spectators. Perhaps impress, though for the WRONG reasons.

There are not so many really good uses for gaffs as you might expect. [you switch them in, they do what they do and then you switch them out. They are like special effects in a movie… not the plot or characters.]

If you focus on PRESENTATION and clarity of routining you will get better reactions.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
sleightofhander
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I've only been messing with coins for about two years now, so the gaffs help build the confidence till the sleights get better. Maybe it's false confidence. But they still help.
Bob Parnez
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I know gaffs aren't that impressive, but they're still fun to use.
richgerb86
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Gaff's are not that impressive? Putting a coin into a bottle, pushing a pen through coin, almost any trick with a shell (shadow coins for example) always seem to get a great response & impress spectators. I do agree presentation is the main focus of any effect. With gaffs you can do some wonderful illusions. Don't overlook them. Another great trick that uses a gaff, …Ultimate 3 Fly.
Larry Davidson
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Quote:
On 2003-10-18 02:48, JonTown wrote:
A gimmick is not likely to affect spectators. Perhaps impress, though for the WRONG reasons.

There are not so many really good uses for gaffs as you might expect.

If you focus on PRESENTATION and clarity of routining you will get better reactions.


I respect your knowledge and views but I'm really surprised by this particular posting.

In my view, there are incredible uses for gaffs (usually combined with sleight of hand). Following up on richgerb86's posting:

I can't think of a cleaner way of performing coins across to spectator's hand (which absolutely kills laymen) than through use of a shell (and sleight of hand).

I can't think of a cleaner “two coin transposition” than through use of a Chinatown Half (and sleight of hand), a gaff I know you're intimately familiar with.

I can't think of a cleaner object through quarter penetration than though use of a trapped quarter.

I can't think of a cleaner “coins to glass” routine than through use of gimmicks. In fact, I perform my version of that effect as a closer to my stand-up act and there's absolutely no way the effect can be performed as cleanly without gimmicks.

Just four examples…

Of course I focus on presentation and clarity of routining, but clarity of effect is sometimes aided by use of a gimmick.

Larry D.
Don Wilson
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An old-time gag that is used by many before starting a coin effect is to place a similar coin you will be using for the trick on your forehead (a little sweat or spit will hold it.) You notice a spectator looking at you funny, "Oh yeah, here is the coin I am looking for", as you pretend to unscrew the coin from your forehead, and toss the coin with a big screw or nail on the table (Bobo switch), rub forehead "good thing I heal quickly!" Easy, cheap, but … gets their attention. (Epoxy or solder the screw to the coin.) Don
Larry Davidson
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You can also put a dot of red magic marker on the side of the legitimate coin that you stick to you forehead, so that when you pull it off, it leaves a little red-colored hole... looks funny.
Dynamike
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The two I used the most is Magnetic Siver Copper and Cigarette thru Quarter. The spectators do not know it is a gimmick coin.
David Neighbors
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If you combine sleight of hand with a gaff you can kill!!! I have done it for the last 30 years! I have always thought that you should learn your sleight of hand first! But ringing in a gaff like a shell or a c.s.b. gimmick or 2 coin gimmick at the right time can kill! Working on presentation is always good! But some times a gaff can help clarity of routining! I would go for “Does it look like magic?!” It's not about if you are using a gaff or not!
Best David Neighbors
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Paul Chosse
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Reread the original post before you are so quick to criticize Jon. It asked specifically about which gimmicked coin is the most amazing to spectators and the hardest to figure out to magicians. NOT what amazing magic can you accomplish with the use of a gaff. Jon's answer seems appropriate given the obvious nature of the question. The focus needs to be on effect, then on method, not vice versa. It seems to me that was the point of Jon's response, but I could be wrong.

Best, PSC
"You can't steal a gift..." Dizzy Gillespie
Larry Davidson
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I assume you were directing that posting to me.

I wasn't quick, and I wasn't criticizing (assuming you're using that term in a negative way). I find nothing wrong with and will continue to share my thoughts in a constructive manner, which was my intent versus your characterization of my posting as something negative.

Jon and I PM'ed each other yesterday. He agreed with the examples I included in my posting, and he explained his remarks which were based on the nature of the question and which I assume he has decided not to expand on publicly or he would have by now. My thoughts were based on the sentences "...A gimmick is not likely to affect spectators..." and "...There are not so many really good uses for gaffs as you might expect...." He clarified, I understood, and it's a non-issue.

Of course the primary focus needs to be on effect, with the secondary focus on method only to the extent that it influences effect.

Best regards, Larry Davidson
Dbzkid999
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Coin Bite and the Raven are the best!!!

Hope that helps.

Adam
Daniel Faith
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Right on David!
There is nothing wrong with using Gaffs.
I just don't understand the mentality or ego if you will of some magicians that say gaffs makes you less of a magician. That is Bull with a capital B.
The end always justifies the means in magic.
The effect on the audience is the only thing that matters.
I combine sleight of hand with gaffs and it does Kill!
Daniel Faith
Paul Chosse
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This is in response to Larry. Larry,

There were four posts regarding gaffs, all clearly in response to Jons' post, so your "assumption" that my post was directed to you is wrong. It was a general response.

You also "assume" that my use of terms was meant in a negative way, and you further "assume" that my "characterization" of your post was negative, then you "assume" that Jon is not going to expand on his views. You make an awful lot of assumptions!

Then, having "assumed" all these things, you defend yourself. Sort of like throwing mud on someone and then calling them dirty, don't you think?

I use gaffs daily, and find them incredibly helpful. In fact I agree with your statements about clarity of effect being enhanced by the use of various gaffs. The point/question in the original post, though, was not about effect, but about the gaff, in and of itself. The answers didn't seem to address the question, with the exception of Jons'. You did, as an afterthought, give a nod to presentation. My fear is that someone new might think the prop IS the effect, a dangerous supposition, and that was the point of Jons' post, and my support of it.

I hope this clarifies my views to your satisfaction. If you want to make any further assumptions about my intent feel free, but I think asking for clarification might be more productive.

Best, PSC
"You can't steal a gift..." Dizzy Gillespie
Larry Davidson
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Paul,

You're right, I did assume.

I assumed your first posting was directed to me because it stated "Reread the original post before you are so quick to criticize Jon" and I was the only poster who specifically mentioned Jon's posting. What was clear to you wasn't clear to me.

I assumed that your advice "Reread the original post before you are so quick to criticize Jon" meant that you felt "criticism" was inappropriate or something negative in this case.

I assumed that Jon was not going to expand on his post because he hadn't in days and could have immediately after we PM'ed each other.

My intent was not to throw mud on you and then call you dirty, but I will make another assumption...that you agree the written word can lead to misunderstanding.

In the future, I'll ask for clarification as you suggested vs. making assumptions.

Regards, Larry D.

P.S. - Although my nod to presentation was posted as an "afterthought" in this particular thread, presentation is in fact always my "end" and "method" is always nothing more than a "means" to an end. I agree 100% with your statement that thinking a prop IS the effect is a dangerous supposition.
Jonathan Townsend
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I've revised my post to clarify my position on gaffed coins.

And just to show my sincerity ... even posted an application of a gaff on the 'expanded shell' thread.

If the gaff impresses someone, they better be a machinist cause you are exposing something and taking away the basic premise that the coins are solid and real.

Rarely will a serious coin-man be fooled by gaffs. This is simply because of the weight and feel discrepancies evident upon examination, and the handling issues which usually telegraph their use.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Larry Davidson
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Quote:
On 2003-10-20 16:41, JonTown wrote:
If the gaff impresses someone, they better be a machinist cause you are exposing something…


True, and funny!
Bob Parnez
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Some people are getting off topic. (hint hint)
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