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NicholasD
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One of my physical education instructors in college was a national level badminton player. He played everyone in class one on one, and no one got a point.
S2000magician
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Quote:
On 2012-08-02 11:43, balducci wrote:
Spectators demand it . . .

Probably the strongest argument.

Quote:
On 2012-08-02 11:43, balducci wrote:
. . . the rules require it . . .

I'm pretty sure that this isn't true.

Quote:
On 2012-08-02 11:43, balducci wrote:
. . . and sporting ethics make it non-optional.

Again, I'm not sure that this is true. See the references to intentional walks.

Quote:
On 2012-08-02 11:43, balducci wrote:
The eight badminton players tried to rig the outcome of their matches . . .

I see it as them trying to ensure that they would make it to the medal rounds; seems competitive to me.

Quote:
On 2012-08-02 11:43, balducci wrote:
. . . the fact they are going home in disgrace says everything we need to know about what it means to compete with honour.

Unless the people who created the absurd rules of contest are sent home in disgrace, I diasgree that we know everything.
LobowolfXXX
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Yeah, if you set the conditions of contest that make it a good idea to dump games, then get haughty because it happens and the spectators are upset, you should be out of there. Without pay.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Chessmann
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Intentional walks are done by a team seeking to win a game, not lose a game.

The badminton teams were trying to lose games (to get easier opponents in the future). Intentional walks are for the purpose of a team trying to win a game - plus, the team giving the walk risks some by allowing an opposing player on base.
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balducci
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Quote:
On 2012-08-02 16:14, S2000magician wrote:.

Quote:
On 2012-08-02 11:43, balducci wrote:
. . . the rules require it . . .

I'm pretty sure that this isn't true.

Quote:
On 2012-08-02 11:43, balducci wrote:
. . . and sporting ethics make it non-optional.

Again, I'm not sure that this is true. See the references to intentional walks..

Of course, I cut and pasted the editorial from the link I gave. Those were not my opinions, exactly.

However, the last paragraph in the editorial did explain why intentional walks are a different case and do not violate sporting ethics.
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balducci
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And as for what the rules of badminton do require ...

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetorch/2012/0......-purpose

The article above also notes that NBA games have been tanked for the sake of draft ranking.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2012-08-02 16:24, Chessmann wrote:
Intentional walks are done by a team seeking to win a game, not lose a game.

The badminton teams were trying to lose games (to get easier opponents in the future). Intentional walks are for the purpose of a team trying to win a game - plus, the team giving the walk risks some by allowing an opposing player on base.


Olympic athletes want to win medals. If you don't want them to lose games on purpose, don't set up an event wherein losing games increases their chances of winning medals.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
TomBoleware
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It's like a boxer unquestionably taking a fall in the first round. Nobody likes it.
It's not fair to the fans that pay big money to see a 'real' match.
It's cheating the sport and it is an insult to the other team.
I say they should be sent home immediately. Tar feathers and all for the coaches.


Tom
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Chessmann
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Quote:
On 2012-08-02 16:42, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-08-02 16:24, Chessmann wrote:
Intentional walks are done by a team seeking to win a game, not lose a game.

The badminton teams were trying to lose games (to get easier opponents in the future). Intentional walks are for the purpose of a team trying to win a game - plus, the team giving the walk risks some by allowing an opposing player on base.


Olympic athletes want to win medals. If you don't want them to lose games on purpose, don't set up an event wherein losing games increases their chances of winning medals.


...which had nothing to do with my point, but ok. Smile
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motown
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Quote:
On 2012-08-02 01:56, S2000magician wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-08-02 00:03, motown wrote:
So, it's the organizer fault that teams purposely tried to lose.

That make's no sense.

It makes more sense that sticking that apostrophe in "makes".

;)

If the conditions of contest say that if you win this match you play the toughest team in the quarterfinals and are, therefore, unlikely to make it to the semifinal (medal) round, but if you lose this match you will play the easiest team in the quarterfinals and are, therefore, likely to make it to the medal round, and your ultimate goal is to have the greatest chance of winning a medal, then you should try to lose this match. Those conditions are stupid, and would be the fault of the organizer. Pretty straightforward.
What's stupid is is your argument.

You've obviously never played any competitive sports.
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tommy
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That is interesting from a betting mans point of view.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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S2000magician
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Quote:
On 2012-08-02 22:44, motown wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-08-02 01:56, S2000magician wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-08-02 00:03, motown wrote:
So, it's the organizer fault that teams purposely tried to lose.

That make's no sense.

It makes more sense that sticking that apostrophe in "makes".

;)

If the conditions of contest say that if you win this match you play the toughest team in the quarterfinals and are, therefore, unlikely to make it to the semifinal (medal) round, but if you lose this match you will play the easiest team in the quarterfinals and are, therefore, likely to make it to the medal round, and your ultimate goal is to have the greatest chance of winning a medal, then you should try to lose this match. Those conditions are stupid, and would be the fault of the organizer. Pretty straightforward.

What's stupid is is your argument.

You've obviously never played any competitive sports.

I always find it interesting when a falsehood is obvious.

What part of my argument is stupid?
LobowolfXXX
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What's clearly stupid is the conditions of contest.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
acesover
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Any one who competes in a competition and purposely loses does not deserve to compete. If we have athelets that stoop this low and coaches who condone it then neither of the aforementioned deserve to be in competitive sports. Lets see the logic here. Go let the inferior team beaat you so you canplay an even weaker team and beat them into the ground. That sounds like it is real sporting. Medals or not If I had to win a medal this way I would rather not have it and I have shoot competitie pitol, rifle and trap and would never consider this for one second. Let me put it another way. If you are a sponsor for lets say a watch company would you want this team endorsing your watches when every one knew how they medaled? I think not. If so I think your values are skewed.

With what you say if the medal is the only thing that is important suppose making money is the only thing that is important for a basketball player and he is offered a considerabale amount of money to shave points...according to your way of thinking as money is what it is all important you should shave the points...well I disagree. He should e strung up by hid __lls in both of these cases and barred from ever competing at this level again.

Pete Rose bet on the team he managed and they buried him. Now if he bet aganist them I could see the punishment. DIFFERENT TOPIC FORGET I SAID THAT. Smile Unring that bell.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
LobowolfXXX
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Not much different than any NFL playoff team sitting its starters in the last week(s) of the season if it doesn't affect their playoff seed.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
acesover
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Quote:
On 2012-08-03 01:02, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Not much different than any NFL playoff team sitting its starters in the last week(s) of the season if it doesn't affect their playoff seed.


Big differnce. The nonstarters are playing their hearts out trying to win. They are not throwing a game. I hope you see the difference. They don't let the other team win. That is the difference.

Seriously Lobo have you ever competed in any competitive sports or games of any kind? Not a trick question. Just wondering because if you did I cannot see how you could condone this type of behavior if you have anysort of competitive blood in you. I wonder who is responsible for the decision for these players do to this. I find it hard to believe they themselves decided on this, but rather the coaches or possibly even higher up, but that is ony speculation on my part.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2012-08-03 01:11, acesover wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-08-03 01:02, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Not much different than any NFL playoff team sitting its starters in the last week(s) of the season if it doesn't affect their playoff seed.


Big differnce. The nonstarters are playing their hearts out trying to win. They are not throwing a game. I hope you see the difference. They don't let the other team win. That is the difference.

Seriously Lobo have you ever competed in any competitive sports or games of any kind? Not a trick question. Just wondering because if you did I cannot see how you could condone this type of behavior if you have anysort of competitive blood in you. I wonder who is responsible for the decision for these players do to this. I find it hard to believe they themselves decided on this, but rather the coaches or possibly even higher up, but that is ony speculation on my part.


The players may be, but the coach is CERTAINLY not trying to win (in the NFL example). It's not a matter of condoning the behavior; it's a matter of assigning what I think is the primary blame. It's asinine, and easily avoidable, to set up a format where teams have a powerful incentive to lose on purpose. Those teams never should have been in that position in the first place. Even if everybody had played as hard as possible, the format could have easily resulted in the second-best team not medaling, and a team that lost to them getting a medal after being rewarded for their loss. The situation leading up to what happened was just totally stupid.

And yes, I have.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
S2000magician
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Quote:
On 2012-08-02 12:14, TonyB2009 wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-08-02 10:35, S2000magician wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-08-02 02:50, MobilityBundle wrote:
. . . I have no idea what badminton fans tolerate. Probably a lot. After all, they're badminton fans. Smile

Out of curiosity, have you ever played / watched Olympic badminton?

Without being overly dramatic, it's a grueling sport, every bit as exhausting as tennis or racketball.

And a far sight easier than boxing, judo, gymnastics, marathon running, cycling, triathlon, and many of the other sports in the olympics.

And a far sight harder (at least physically) than trap shooting, archery, diving, and sailing. (And I disagree that it's a far sight easier than many other sports.)

Are we really going to get into a discussion of which sports belong in the Olympics based solely on . . . what? . . . the number of calories burned per minute?
stoneunhinged
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Quote:
What's stupid is is your argument.

You've obviously never played any competitive sports.


I absolutely love posts like this! They are so self-negating that it surprises me people make the effort to write them.

If I had a nickel for every time someone writes, "you don't know what you're talking about" (or variations thereof), I'd buy the Magic Café from Steve Brooks and turn it into a real bar. I'd put it right next to Magic Castle and we'd compete head-to-head. But instead of suits and ties and uppity atmosphere, we'd have more of a Hooter's sort of thing going. But, you know, with vegan wings for dudes like Lobo.

Hey, it's MY dream, so don't ridicule it.
stoneunhinged
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Quote:
On 2012-08-03 01:11, acesover wrote:
Seriously Lobo have you ever competed in any competitive sports or games of any kind?


And here we go again....

[Jeff groans]

First of all, I've never been an astronaut, but I bet that I know fifty times more about the moon landing than you, Aces. This argument is getting so old that I'm surprised you keep using it. It's as if you never have any better argument up your sleeve than to say, "you don't know what you're talking about." And sometimes--university rules and ethics in Germany, for example--you so clearly do NOT know what YOU are talking about that it literally makes my jaw drop that you keep going and don't admit it. (I mean, seriously, dude: how could you begin to start to begin thinking you know more than I do about university rules in Germany? Huh? It's positively brain-numbing.) Sometimes you ought to just give it your best and hope that your logic wins out, and not resort to the child-like "nanny nanny boo boo, I know oh more than you" defense.

Second, if you were to pay just a wee, tiny, small, little bit of attention to who's who here in this forum, you'd know that at least two of the posters have recently formed a bridge team and play competitive bridge. Another of the posters has a high enough chess ranking to suggest that he knows more about serious competition than you can possibly imagine.

Look, I said it before: I'm not angry with you. But I'm sick and tired of your arrogant claim to know more about things than everyone else here when you clearly do not. You do NOT know more about competitive sports than Lobo, and even if you did, it would say nothing regarding the logic or quality of your argument.

I'm beginning to suspect you're just trolling us. If you're not, get off your high horse and stop telling people they're stupid.

On Topic: what Lobo is suggesting is that the tournament has been arranged badly IF throwing individual games can allow a competitor to have an advantage in the overall tournament.

I agree.

And for the record, I have been involved in organized, competitive baseball and softball for over forty years and on three continents (Asia, North America, and Europe). So I know something about competition. And considering the three continents, I'd say I know a HELL OF A LOT MORE THAN ACES DOES ABOUT INTERNATIONAL COMPETITION. Not that it matters, mind you. Smile (Oh, and note that my yelling is done in a spirit of imitation. Otherwise, I really don't like to yell on Internet forums.)
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