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acesover
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Quote:
On 2012-08-03 01:15, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-08-03 01:11, acesover wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-08-03 01:02, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Not much different than any NFL playoff team sitting its starters in the last week(s) of the season if it doesn't affect their playoff seed.


Big differnce. The nonstarters are playing their hearts out trying to win. They are not throwing a game. I hope you see the difference. They don't let the other team win. That is the difference.

Seriously Lobo have you ever competed in any competitive sports or games of any kind? Not a trick question. Just wondering because if you did I cannot see how you could condone this type of behavior if you have anysort of competitive blood in you. I wonder who is responsible for the decision for these players do to this. I find it hard to believe they themselves decided on this, but rather the coaches or possibly even higher up, but that is ony speculation on my part.


The players may be, but the coach is CERTAINLY not trying to win (in the NFL example). It's not a matter of condoning the behavior; it's a matter of assigning what I think is the primary blame. It's asinine, and easily avoidable, to set up a format where teams have a powerful incentive to lose on purpose. Those teams never should have been in that position in the first place. Even if everybody had played as hard as possible, the format could have easily resulted in the second-best team not medaling, and a team that lost to them getting a medal after being rewarded for their loss. The situation leading up to what happened was just totally stupid.

And yes, I have.


Don't bet that it is the coaches decision. You may find yourself losing some money there.
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Quote:
On 2012-08-03 03:32, stoneunhinged wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-08-03 01:11, acesover wrote:
Seriously Lobo have you ever competed in any competitive sports or games of any kind?


And here we go again....

[Jeff groans]

First of all, I've never been an astronaut, but I bet that I know fifty times more about the moon landing than you, Aces. This argument is getting so old that I'm surprised you keep using it. It's as if you never have any better argument up your sleeve than to say, "you don't know what you're talking about." And sometimes--university rules and ethics in Germany, for example--you so clearly do NOT know what YOU are talking about that it literally makes my jaw drop that you keep going and don't admit it. (I mean, seriously, dude: how could you begin to start to begin thinking you know more than I do about university rules in Germany? Huh? It's positively brain-numbing.) Sometimes you ought to just give it your best and hope that your logic wins out, and not resort to the child-like "nanny nanny boo boo, I know oh more than you" defense.

Second, if you were to pay just a wee, tiny, small, little bit of attention to who's who here in this forum, you'd know that at least two of the posters have recently formed a bridge team and play competitive bridge. Another of the posters has a high enough chess ranking to suggest that he knows more about serious competition than you can possibly imagine.

Look, I said it before: I'm not angry with you. But I'm sick and tired of your arrogant claim to know more about things than everyone else here when you clearly do not. You do NOT know more about competitive sports than Lobo, and even if you did, it would say nothing regarding the logic or quality of your argument.

I'm beginning to suspect you're just trolling us. If you're not, get off your high horse and stop telling people they're stupid.

On Topic: what Lobo is suggesting is that the tournament has been arranged badly IF throwing individual games can allow a competitor to have an advantage in the overall tournament.

I agree.

And for the record, I have been involved in organized, competitive baseball and softball for over forty years and on three continents (Asia, North America, and Europe). So I know something about competition. And considering the three continents, I'd say I know a HELL OF A LOT MORE THAN ACES DOES ABOUT INTERNATIONAL COMPETITION. Not that it matters, mind you. Smile (Oh, and note that my yelling is done in a spirit of imitation. Otherwise, I really don't like to yell on Internet forums.)


NOt saying Iknow more about anything about anything than anyone else here. However I have competed at a highlevel in Pistol, rifle and Trap shooting form many years. Those are long gone. I say competed...that is th ekey work here I did not play at these sports. I never threw an evern or knew any of my competitors to do so either. they have to much pride and are competitors they are there to win by beating everyone else. End of stroy. Spin it however you want.
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It happens in team sport all the time. For example next week you have an important game but today you have not so impotant game. Do you send out your best players today or save them for next week?
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Quote:
On 2012-08-03 18:41, acesover wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-08-03 03:32, stoneunhinged wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-08-03 01:11, acesover wrote:
Seriously Lobo have you ever competed in any competitive sports or games of any kind?


And here we go again....

[Jeff groans]

First of all, I've never been an astronaut, but I bet that I know fifty times more about the moon landing than you, Aces. This argument is getting so old that I'm surprised you keep using it. It's as if you never have any better argument up your sleeve than to say, "you don't know what you're talking about." And sometimes--university rules and ethics in Germany, for example--you so clearly do NOT know what YOU are talking about that it literally makes my jaw drop that you keep going and don't admit it. (I mean, seriously, dude: how could you begin to start to begin thinking you know more than I do about university rules in Germany? Huh? It's positively brain-numbing.) Sometimes you ought to just give it your best and hope that your logic wins out, and not resort to the child-like "nanny nanny boo boo, I know oh more than you" defense.

Second, if you were to pay just a wee, tiny, small, little bit of attention to who's who here in this forum, you'd know that at least two of the posters have recently formed a bridge team and play competitive bridge. Another of the posters has a high enough chess ranking to suggest that he knows more about serious competition than you can possibly imagine.

Look, I said it before: I'm not angry with you. But I'm sick and tired of your arrogant claim to know more about things than everyone else here when you clearly do not. You do NOT know more about competitive sports than Lobo, and even if you did, it would say nothing regarding the logic or quality of your argument.

I'm beginning to suspect you're just trolling us. If you're not, get off your high horse and stop telling people they're stupid.

On Topic: what Lobo is suggesting is that the tournament has been arranged badly IF throwing individual games can allow a competitor to have an advantage in the overall tournament.

I agree.

And for the record, I have been involved in organized, competitive baseball and softball for over forty years and on three continents (Asia, North America, and Europe). So I know something about competition. And considering the three continents, I'd say I know a HELL OF A LOT MORE THAN ACES DOES ABOUT INTERNATIONAL COMPETITION. Not that it matters, mind you. Smile (Oh, and note that my yelling is done in a spirit of imitation. Otherwise, I really don't like to yell on Internet forums.)


NOt saying Iknow more about anything about anything than anyone else here. However I have competed at a highlevel in Pistol, rifle and Trap shooting form many years. Those are long gone. I say competed...that is th ekey work here I did not play at these sports. I never threw an evern or knew any of my competitors to do so either. they have to much pride and are competitors they are there to win by beating everyone else. End of stroy. Spin it however you want.


I, too, have competed at fairly high levels in various disciplines.

Have you ever participated in a major event that was set up such that it would have been to your advantage to lose?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

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Quote:
On 2012-08-03 18:37, acesover wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-08-03 01:15, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-08-03 01:11, acesover wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-08-03 01:02, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Not much different than any NFL playoff team sitting its starters in the last week(s) of the season if it doesn't affect their playoff seed.


Big differnce. The nonstarters are playing their hearts out trying to win. They are not throwing a game. I hope you see the difference. They don't let the other team win. That is the difference.

Seriously Lobo have you ever competed in any competitive sports or games of any kind? Not a trick question. Just wondering because if you did I cannot see how you could condone this type of behavior if you have anysort of competitive blood in you. I wonder who is responsible for the decision for these players do to this. I find it hard to believe they themselves decided on this, but rather the coaches or possibly even higher up, but that is ony speculation on my part.


The players may be, but the coach is CERTAINLY not trying to win (in the NFL example). It's not a matter of condoning the behavior; it's a matter of assigning what I think is the primary blame. It's asinine, and easily avoidable, to set up a format where teams have a powerful incentive to lose on purpose. Those teams never should have been in that position in the first place. Even if everybody had played as hard as possible, the format could have easily resulted in the second-best team not medaling, and a team that lost to them getting a medal after being rewarded for their loss. The situation leading up to what happened was just totally stupid.

And yes, I have.


Don't bet that it is the coaches decision. You may find yourself losing some money there.


Apart from a few cases of owners who think they're coaches (Al Davis, Jerry Jones), I would be good money that in the vast majority of cases, it's the coach deciding to bench starters to avoid injuries for playoffs. Most famously, it was Jim Caldwell's decision to pull the starters against the Jets, thereby blowing an undefeated season for the Colts.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
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I don't think the football analogy really works, although I agree with Lobo's point in general.

When a football coach benches players for a game because the team is already in the playoffs, it is done to rest key players, and generally not as a way of manipulating the playoff schedule as was done by the badminton teams.

Further, when second and third-stringers are started in a meaningless end-of-season game, they generally perform to the best of their abilities because it is one of the only times many of them get to play full games and get the potentially valuable exposure that it brings them individually.

There is no intent, as in the badminton situation, to INTENTIONALLY lose the game.

I agree, though, that because the Olympic rule-makers created a situation where it could be advantageous for a team to throw a game, it is wrong to exclusively blame the players for working within the rules in order to improve their chances of making the finals.
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Quote:
On 2012-08-03 18:59, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-08-03 18:41, acesover wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-08-03 03:32, stoneunhinged wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-08-03 01:11, acesover wrote:
Seriously Lobo have you ever competed in any competitive sports or games of any kind?


And here we go again....

[Jeff groans]

First of all, I've never been an astronaut, but I bet that I know fifty times more about the moon landing than you, Aces. This argument is getting so old that I'm surprised you keep using it. It's as if you never have any better argument up your sleeve than to say, "you don't know what you're talking about." And sometimes--university rules and ethics in Germany, for example--you so clearly do NOT know what YOU are talking about that it literally makes my jaw drop that you keep going and don't admit it. (I mean, seriously, dude: how could you begin to start to begin thinking you know more than I do about university rules in Germany? Huh? It's positively brain-numbing.) Sometimes you ought to just give it your best and hope that your logic wins out, and not resort to the child-like "nanny nanny boo boo, I know oh more than you" defense.

Second, if you were to pay just a wee, tiny, small, little bit of attention to who's who here in this forum, you'd know that at least two of the posters have recently formed a bridge team and play competitive bridge. Another of the posters has a high enough chess ranking to suggest that he knows more about serious competition than you can possibly imagine.

Look, I said it before: I'm not angry with you. But I'm sick and tired of your arrogant claim to know more about things than everyone else here when you clearly do not. You do NOT know more about competitive sports than Lobo, and even if you did, it would say nothing regarding the logic or quality of your argument.

I'm beginning to suspect you're just trolling us. If you're not, get off your high horse and stop telling people they're stupid.

On Topic: what Lobo is suggesting is that the tournament has been arranged badly IF throwing individual games can allow a competitor to have an advantage in the overall tournament.

I agree.

And for the record, I have been involved in organized, competitive baseball and softball for over forty years and on three continents (Asia, North America, and Europe). So I know something about competition. And considering the three continents, I'd say I know a HELL OF A LOT MORE THAN ACES DOES ABOUT INTERNATIONAL COMPETITION. Not that it matters, mind you. Smile (Oh, and note that my yelling is done in a spirit of imitation. Otherwise, I really don't like to yell on Internet forums.)


NOt saying Iknow more about anything about anything than anyone else here. However I have competed at a highlevel in Pistol, rifle and Trap shooting form many years. Those are long gone. I say competed...that is th ekey work here I did not play at these sports. I never threw an evern or knew any of my competitors to do so either. they have to much pride and are competitors they are there to win by beating everyone else. End of stroy. Spin it however you want.


I, too, have competed at fairly high levels in various disciplines.

Have you ever participated in a major event that was set up such that it would have been to your advantage to lose?


No I have not. But me personally I can honestly say I would not go that route. I would have a hard time looking back on a victory that was accomplished by throwing a match to get easy prey. I guess I can see how it could be tempting to some just not me or my style.

But I still doubt that it was the sole decision of the athletes to throw the match. If I was the coach and my players did that without my consent I would pull all of them from competition. However if I was told from higher ups that you must do this or when you get back to your home country you may never be heard from again. Smile Not sure what I would do but going back home is not an option.

Remember this team was not from the United States where this could be done without it hitting the fan. I hope we can all agree on at least that.

It would definitely be frowned upon here in the U.S. Anyway I sure hope it would and hope we are not stooping that low for a medal. Maybe it is just me from a different time and different ideals. Maybe that is the way things are done now. If so I am kind of glad most of my life is behind me.

Remember we are talking about atheletes dumping here. We are not talking about putting in your second string in order to save your cream for an already garanteed playoff spot. The second sstriing may still win. If your secon dssring was winning would you tell them to dump? Jeeez. Believe me when second string goes into a game they play their hearts out.


JEFF PLEASE STOP GROANING. I guess I asked that question because as a competitor I can not imagine a senario that I would ever throw a mach to an inferior opponent. NEVER..The only senario would be the mob has my family senario. Smile

When your opponent is inferior they deserve to lose, unless it is your 3 year old grandson. He beats pop pop at everything.
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acesover
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On 2012-08-03 20:39, mastermindreader wrote:
I don't think the football analogy really works, although I agree with Lobo's point in general.

When a football coach benches players for a game because the team is already in the playoffs, it is done to rest key players, and generally not as a way of manipulating the playoff schedule as was done by the badminton teams.

Further, when second and third-stringers are started in a meaningless end-of-season game, they generally perform to the best of their abilities because it is one of the only times many of them get to play full games and get the potentially valuable exposure that it brings them individually.

There is no intent, as in the badminton situation, to INTENTIONALLY lose the game.

I agree, though, that because the Olympic rule-makers created a situation where it could be advantageous for a team to throw a game, it is wrong to exclusively blame the players for working within the rules in order to improve their chances of making the finals.


I agree on all points here.

But I have to ask. Has it been established who was to blame for the dumping? I mean obvioiusly the players but were they told to dump or did they do this on their own..As I said in another post if I was a coach and my players intentionally dupmed I would remove them from the competition.

Also I do have an issue with the statement, "the players for working within the rules" I would imagine somewhere in the rules of an event such as the Olympics there has to be something about ethics and I just find this unethical and I would think ethics are coverd in the Olympic rules. Maybe not. Just my thinking on this.
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Stone.

I was going to let this slide but I just can't. Here is your post:

Second, if you were to pay just a wee, tiny, small, little bit of attention to who's who here in this forum, you'd know that at least two of the posters have recently formed a bridge team and play competitive bridge. Another of the posters has a high enough chess ranking to suggest that he knows more about serious competition than you can possibly imagine.

While I have played chess in the past I lay no claim to any in depth knowledge of the game but a few simple openings. Having said that I did enjoy the game very much and can see how one can be a fan of it and really get involved in it seriously. At times I wish I had. But here is the issue. It is not a sport. It is a game of the mind. It does not involve anywhere the physcial endurance of what an Olympic athelete must do to compete at the same level as a Grandmaster chess player. Please don't go there. I in no way am degrading chess players becasue I stand in awe of them in their ability to play the game, but please don't compare chess to the Olympics. Please don't call chess a sport. No more than Holdem is a sport. Because if you classify that as a sport well here I am a real athelete in Holdem poker.

It is to easy to sit back here and talk about my competition whether it is in the arena of shooting or cards (poker) without having to prove anything. Discounting the fact that I own 3 Pool rooms plus other interests and run several card games a week for the last 18 years of which as long as you are going to talk about serious copetition I do not believe you can even afford to buy into the one game. Talk about being snobby huh. But if you think that I know nothing of competition you are misinformed. However this is off topic as I am discussing your comparing a grand master chess player with an olympian. I have tremendous respect for the grandmaster but this is definitely the "apples and oranges deal" if there ever was one.

By the way I do not even know how to play Bridge much less have an idea how difficult it is. However I have played Canasta for some serious money. And as I said I have played holdem for some very serious money both tournament style and cash games (ring games).

WHATEVER THE HECK THIS LAST POST OF MINE HAS TO DO WITH SPORT DUMPING. Smile

I now have a headache.

Probably I come across as being nasty and you may think I also come across as a know it all. But to be honest I got where I am today because I worked by butt off and took chances, served my country in Nam, and am as many others here very opinionated. Therein lies the problem with me...opinionated and vocal about my opinions. I hate to be contradicted especialy if I am wrong about something (if that makes any sense). I comfortable financially and maybe that has spoiled me a bit because while not only being comfortable, I am what we call well connected and am used to getting my own way. So please excuse this spoiled brat and consider the source. Smile

As long as Stone laid out some issues in another post I thought I might do the same. However this is the last time I will be nice. Smile That is if you want to call this post nice. Smile
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I believe the Chinese coach accepted responsibility for what his team did. He was not present in the building at today's competition.
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Quote:
On 2012-08-03 23:44, acesover wrote:
Stone.

I was going to let this slide but I just can't. Here is your post:

Second, if you were to pay just a wee, tiny, small, little bit of attention to who's who here in this forum, you'd know that at least two of the posters have recently formed a bridge team and play competitive bridge. Another of the posters has a high enough chess ranking to suggest that he knows more about serious competition than you can possibly imagine.

While I have played chess in the past I lay no claim to any in depth knowledge of the game but a few simple openings. Having said that I did enjoy the game very much and can see how one can be a fan of it and really get involved in it seriously. At times I wish I had. But here is the issue. It is not a sport. It is a game of the mind. It does not involve anywhere the physcial endurance of what an Olympic athelete must do to compete at the same level as a Grandmaster chess player. Please don't go there. I in no way am degrading chess players becasue I stand in awe of them in their ability to play the game, but please don't compare chess to the Olympics. Please don't call chess a sport. No more than Holdem is a sport. Because if you classify that as a sport well here I am a real athelete in Holdem poker.

It is to easy to sit back here and talk about my competition whether it is in the arena of shooting or cards (poker) without having to prove anything. Discounting the fact that I own 3 Pool rooms plus other interests and run several card games a week for the last 18 years of which as long as you are going to talk about serious copetition I do not believe you can even afford to buy into the one game. Talk about being snobby huh. But if you think that I know nothing of competition you are misinformed. However this is off topic as I am discussing your comparing a grand master chess player with an olympian. I have tremendous respect for the grandmaster but this is definitely the "apples and oranges deal" if there ever was one.

By the way I do not even know how to play Bridge much less have an idea how difficult it is. However I have played Canasta for some serious money. And as I said I have played holdem for some very serious money both tournament style and cash games (ring games).

WHATEVER THE HECK THIS LAST POST OF MINE HAS TO DO WITH SPORT DUMPING. Smile

I now have a headache.

Probably I come across as being nasty and you may think I also come across as a know it all. But to be honest I got where I am today because I worked by butt off and took chances, served my country in Nam, and am as many others here very opinionated. Therein lies the problem with me...opinionated and vocal about my opinions. I hate to be contradicted especialy if I am wrong about something (if that makes any sense). I comfortable financially and maybe that has spoiled me a bit because while not only being comfortable, I am what we call well connected and am used to getting my own way. So please excuse this spoiled brat and consider the source. Smile

As long as Stone laid out some issues in another post I thought I might do the same. However this is the last time I will be nice. Smile That is if you want to call this post nice. Smile


What on earth does whether it's physical or not have to do with the level of competitiveness?

Your initial question, by the way, in case you forgot it, was "Have you ever competed in any competitive sports or games of any kind?. I've traveled internationally to represent my local district at international events. And you can pick your favorite sports league and not find more than a handful of athletes as competitive as a Bobby Fischer or Alexander Alekhine. So are we talking sports, or competitiveness? Because if you think that physical sports have a monopoly on competitiveness, it's my turn to play the "You don't know what you're talking about" card.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

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Quote:
On 2012-08-03 23:44, acesover wrote:
By the way I do not even know how to play Bridge much less have an idea how difficult it is. However I have played Canasta for some serious money. And as I said I have played holdem for some very serious money both tournament style and cash games (ring games).

Bridge is far more complex than poker (any variation) and canasta. I have no compunction in saying that it is the most difficult card game (widely played) in the world.
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On 2012-08-04 00:51, LobowolfXXX wrote:
. . . it's my turn to play the "You don't know what you're talking about" card.

That's completely unfair: you're an accomplished card player.
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On 2012-08-03 17:12, GlenD wrote:
There is no guarantee that they will defeat the desired opponent, viewed as inferior . . . .

Ah, the vicissitudes of sport.

That would have been poetic justice . . . had the officials but let it play out.
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The whole ad hominem sub-argument is stupid, because we know for a fact that athletes at the highest levels DO lose on purposes. The 1919 White Sox, numerous boxers, etc.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

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Quote:
On 2012-08-04 02:17, LobowolfXXX wrote:
The whole ad hominem sub-argument is stupid, because we know for a fact that athletes at the highest levels DO lose on purposes. The 1919 White Sox, numerous boxers, etc.

As you've never made an ad hominum sub-argument, you have no standing to condemn them. Please disist forthwith.
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Quote:
On 2012-08-03 19:04, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-08-03 18:37, acesover wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-08-03 01:15, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-08-03 01:11, acesover wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-08-03 01:02, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Not much different than any NFL playoff team sitting its starters in the last week(s) of the season if it doesn't affect their playoff seed.


Big differnce. The nonstarters are playing their hearts out trying to win. They are not throwing a game. I hope you see the difference. They don't let the other team win. That is the difference.

Seriously Lobo have you ever competed in any competitive sports or games of any kind? Not a trick question. Just wondering because if you did I cannot see how you could condone this type of behavior if you have anysort of competitive blood in you. I wonder who is responsible for the decision for these players do to this. I find it hard to believe they themselves decided on this, but rather the coaches or possibly even higher up, but that is ony speculation on my part.


The players may be, but the coach is CERTAINLY not trying to win (in the NFL example). It's not a matter of condoning the behavior; it's a matter of assigning what I think is the primary blame. It's asinine, and easily avoidable, to set up a format where teams have a powerful incentive to lose on purpose. Those teams never should have been in that position in the first place. Even if everybody had played as hard as possible, the format could have easily resulted in the second-best team not medaling, and a team that lost to them getting a medal after being rewarded for their loss. The situation leading up to what happened was just totally stupid.

And yes, I have.


Don't bet that it is the coaches decision. You may find yourself losing some money there.


Apart from a few cases of owners who think they're coaches (Al Davis, Jerry Jones), I would be good money that in the vast majority of cases, it's the coach deciding to bench starters to avoid injuries for playoffs. Most famously, it was Jim Caldwell's decision to pull the starters against the Jets, thereby blowing an undefeated season for the Colts.


Yea and we know how that ended up. He thaght a winning team how to lose. BrGot what they desrved NOTHING.
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Quote:
On 2012-08-04 00:51, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-08-03 23:44, acesover wrote:
Stone.

I was going to let this slide but I just can't. Here is your post:

Second, if you were to pay just a wee, tiny, small, little bit of attention to who's who here in this forum, you'd know that at least two of the posters have recently formed a bridge team and play competitive bridge. Another of the posters has a high enough chess ranking to suggest that he knows more about serious competition than you can possibly imagine.

While I have played chess in the past I lay no claim to any in depth knowledge of the game but a few simple openings. Having said that I did enjoy the game very much and can see how one can be a fan of it and really get involved in it seriously. At times I wish I had. But here is the issue. It is not a sport. It is a game of the mind. It does not involve anywhere the physcial endurance of what an Olympic athelete must do to compete at the same level as a Grandmaster chess player. Please don't go there. I in no way am degrading chess players becasue I stand in awe of them in their ability to play the game, but please don't compare chess to the Olympics. Please don't call chess a sport. No more than Holdem is a sport. Because if you classify that as a sport well here I am a real athelete in Holdem poker.

It is to easy to sit back here and talk about my competition whether it is in the arena of shooting or cards (poker) without having to prove anything. Discounting the fact that I own 3 Pool rooms plus other interests and run several card games a week for the last 18 years of which as long as you are going to talk about serious copetition I do not believe you can even afford to buy into the one game. Talk about being snobby huh. But if you think that I know nothing of competition you are misinformed. However this is off topic as I am discussing your comparing a grand master chess player with an olympian. I have tremendous respect for the grandmaster but this is definitely the "apples and oranges deal" if there ever was one.

By the way I do not even know how to play Bridge much less have an idea how difficult it is. However I have played Canasta for some serious money. And as I said I have played holdem for some very serious money both tournament style and cash games (ring games).

WHATEVER THE HECK THIS LAST POST OF MINE HAS TO DO WITH SPORT DUMPING. Smile

I now have a headache.

Probably I come across as being nasty and you may think I also come across as a know it all. But to be honest I got where I am today because I worked by butt off and took chances, served my country in Nam, and am as many others here very opinionated. Therein lies the problem with me...opinionated and vocal about my opinions. I hate to be contradicted especialy if I am wrong about something (if that makes any sense). I comfortable financially and maybe that has spoiled me a bit because while not only being comfortable, I am what we call well connected and am used to getting my own way. So please excuse this spoiled brat and consider the source. Smile

As long as Stone laid out some issues in another post I thought I might do the same. However this is the last time I will be nice. Smile That is if you want to call this post nice. Smile


What on earth does whether it's physical or not have to do with the level of competitiveness?

Your initial question, by the way, in case you forgot it, was "Have you ever competed in any competitive sports or games of any kind?. I've traveled internationally to represent my local district at international events. And you can pick your favorite sports league and not find more than a handful of athletes as competitive as a Bobby Fischer or Alexander Alekhine. So are we talking sports, or competitiveness? Because if you think that physical sports have a monopoly on competitiveness, it's my turn to play the "You don't know what you're talking about" card.


Lobo,

Nice try Lobo. but you took my question out of context didn't you? Let me post tha whole thing here so the traiin of thought can be followed.. Here it is:

"Seriously Lobo have you ever competed in any competitive sports or games of any kind? Not a trick question. Just wondering because if you did I cannot see how you could condone this type of behavior if you have any sort of competitive blood in you."

Definitely read than different than way you suggest.


I asked earlier if you were a sponsor would you want a person or team who who won (I use the term won very loosely here) this way to endorse your product whie all know how it was accomplished. I am so sorry if you feel differently but when I won a competition any competition I won and and proud of my win. I never had to hang my head in shame because underhanded means were used whether allowed or not.

Pride is important and if you guided your team to victory in such a manner as what happened here, and I speak for myself only on this, I do not look as your win as much of an accomplishment but rather a cheap shot and you gave nothing to yourself or the team. It would be nothing more than a low blow in boxing that you got away with and as a result defeated your opponent.

The question was asked because I cannot believe that anyone involved with any kind of competitive spirit would stoop to such measures as to dump. Perhaps the way the format is set up it is flawed. But it is only flawed because there are some individuals who would stoop to such levels as this, and I guess those who wrote the rules did no believe that in the spirit of competition on this level there would be people who would dump a match. They probably thought, as they should have, that there would be to much pride...well they were mistaken because as we can see there are such people.

To answer your question: What on earth does whether it's physical or not have to do with the level of competitiveness?

Nothing. It is strictly the physcial preperation that diffeers. The level of competitiveness is the same. You are correct.
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LobowolfXXX
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It's not "only flawed because there are individuals who would stoop to such levels as is." it's extremely flawed, regardless. As a direct result of the format, the best teams could have been meeting before the final, for instance. Yes, to get the gold medal, you have to beat the best, but you don't want to play them before the final. Any system that rewards teams for losing and punishes them for losing is flawed, whether anyone actually loses on purpose or not.

I didn't take your question out of context at all. You changed your question when you didn't get the answer you wanted.

And lastly, I haven't "condoned" the actions of any of the players (you might want to reread my posts on the topic) and I, personally, wouldn't do it. I'd try my hardest, and probably get screwed out of a silver medal by the format. My comments have been directed at organizers for creating an easily avoidable problem.
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Quote:
On 2012-08-04 11:36, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Any system that rewards teams for losing and punishes them for losing is flawed . . . .

"Winning" I believe you meant.
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