I didn't see this earlier. I'm not sure how we missed it.

A stacked deck is what Simon Aronson calls an Open Index. In Memories are Made of This, Simon explains the idea:

"It’s almost as though you had a secret pocket index of all 52 cards that easily and efficiently delivers any desired card to your control. Only here, the secret index is out in the open; it’s the very deck you’re openly holding, and the secret memorized order provides the organizing arrangement and mechanism that allows you to quickly get to any desired target card. Because the memorized deck can thus function as an “index” that’s nevertheless out in the “open,” I’ve dubbed this concept the “open index.” "

To Eric,

Don't worry about plugging your book. It's a great book. I used to think of the "Big Three" of mem-deck workers/thinkers as Mike Close, Simon Aronson, and Juan Tamariz. But today it's become the "Big Four." The three aformentioned and Eric Richardson.

To Barry,
Yes, we need to make a new category for the "Open Index" concept. Thanks for mentioning. When we get a few more new concepts I'll update the list.

To All,

I'm beginning to wonder if this information shouldn't be pulled together as an article or a booklet, or something. I suspect that there are a lot of mem-deck workers out there that are not on the Café. I will not do this unless I get the permission of each of the contributors. If all of you agreed, I could post it as a new article on my website, I suppose. If you guys have any thoughts about this, let me know. I'm not gonna jump into anything.

Dennis Loomis

Thanks Dennis, completely undeserved, but appreciated!

Apart from Aronson, Tamariz and Close I'm a HUGE fan of Pit Hartling, Denis Behr, Eric Mead, Woody Aragon,John Born and Martin Joyal. They all have published incredible work with the memorized deck.

Great Thread! I've read through it twice and don't think the Faro has been mentioned(specifically)> I think it needs its own category, outside of false shuffles.

So I am pleased to add the Faro shuffle.

What I do whenever I investigate a stack is to look for certain not-so-obvious properties which allowed for those effects that required certain cards being in specific positions of the deck.
To give you a more concrete example:

• Looking for two mates (or an otherwise similar pair of cards) close to each other in the stack, I remember their position. Cutting at that spot allows to perform a couple effect starting from stack order (Gemini Twins variation).
  
• Even better if two interlaced pairs are present (A-B-A-B) - think of a double coincidence matching effect...
  
• Analysing the stack sequence to find a suitable spot to divide the deck and perform Shuffle Bored.
  
• Spotting the half of the deck that contains more or less evenly distributed reds and blacks. "Mark" the reds exploiting the o**-*a* feature and perform OOTW
  
• ...
  
• ...
  

This is just an overview to give you an idea of what I mean.
Myself, I have a similar "Swiss Army Deck" with lots of those features incorporated, leaving me never unprepared for a variety of different effects.

Thanks for the welcome Dennis! It's nice to be here .

With regards to the use of cut corners for forces, that comes up on page 61 of Ed Marlo's Revolutionary Card Control (although he references a manuscript called "Future Reverse"). Although some of the ideas go into controlling cards to the top it does have some great work on forces and peeking which work really well when paired with a stack. There's another method on page 63 can be used as an impromptu riffle force too (and doesn't require the use of any cut cards). As long as you can sight one card the mem stack allows you to work out all the cards around it which in turn would allow you to force a couple of different cards to different spectators (riffle up for the first, down for the second. One spectator will end up with the card below the sighted card and one with the card above it).

To Dennis,

Suggestion #14, having all the pointer cards facing in the same direction, is not directly related to memorized deck magic. It is however the way I do work with a memorized deck. In facts, this is how I case all my decks, whether stacked or not.

In most decks, there are 22 pointer cards. In the rare occasions where a spectator ask to shuffle the deck after picking up a card, I still have room to escape (42% of chance to find back his card).

Opportunism is one of my preferred tool (but don't tell anyone).


To Eric,

Thanks for your kind words.


Martin

http://www.joyalstack.com/
Magic knowledge that last...

I have found that, given my hand size, whenever I swing cut a packet to the left hand, I almost always cut to the 8 of clubs. I now practice this as a part of my estimation practice. Of course, your hand size may be different and another card is cut to. Also, you can start with the deck pre cut so your swing cut will cut you to another desired card.

Ken Abbott

Hi Ken,

Thanks for jumping into this thread and reviving it. I tried a few practice swing cuts and found that my habit is to cut about 20 cards when I do a "normal" swing cut (or a Kick Cut as Harry Lorayne calls it.) But I'm not very consistant. I got between 18 and 23 over a series of 8 or 10 cuts.

I assume that what you are saying is that you use an Aronson Stack in home position and normally cut 16 cards which would get you to 8C. 8C in Mnemonica is way down at 33, so I doubt that your normal swing cut would take you that deep.

I think that if you can attain a very high percentage of success with this, it would be a deadly tool.

You might try to combine the swing cut with Marlo's idea of using a fingernail as a guage. I just did a series of swing cuts in which I put the fingernail of my right index finger over the left forward corner of the deck. I pretty consistantly can get exactly ten cards. At least given the length of my fingernails right now. In a series of some twenty trials, I was never off by more than a single card. And that's without any practice.

Dennis Loomis

Dennis: Yes, I swing cut to the 8 of Clubs at 16 in Aronson. I have a triple packet false cut that starts with a swing cut. I try to complete the false cut with the additional swing cut to the 8 of Clubs. I appreciate your posts on the Aronson stack. I neve cease to be amamzed by the many things built into the stack as well as the creativity of magicians to use it.

Ken,

Thanks for the confirmation and the compliment. I too am amazed by the stack itself and the many creative ideas that magicians have come up with to enhance the possibilities of the stack. And I find that the Magic Café is a great place for those of us working along the same lines to share our thoughts and build on each other's efforts.

This thread, in particular, contains a wealth of valuable thoughts on mem-deck work. I'll try to find the time to integrate the new suggestions following my listing on Sept 14th.

Dennis Loomis

Back on Sept. 15 Nicolino suggested looking for "Mate" cards near each other in the stack. But he didn't get into specifics. Here they are, for the Aronson stack.

In the Aronson stack, there are three sets of mate cards which form natural sandwiches. The two red fours are at positions 29 and 31, surrounding the KH. The two red jacks are at positions 34 and 36, surrounding the 10C. And the two black queens are at positions 48 and 50, surrounding the 6D.

If you're jazzin and the KH, 10C, or the 6D is named you have a hands free miracle. For example, if the KH is named, you just state that with one snap of the fingers you will cause the the two red fours to find your card. You snap your fingers and spread to that sandwich to show that the fours surround the freely named card.

Dennis Loomis

In his post on Sept. 15, 2012, Nicolino suggested looking for "Interlaced" pairs in the pattern of ABAB. While this situation does not exist with the Aronson stack, there is something quite close. By eliminating the JH from the five card run from positions 32 to 36, you do have two interesting sets: the 10 and J of Diamonds and Clubs. There should be an interesting effect made possible from this.

Dennis Loomis

To go back to Nicolino's post from Sept 15, for the third time: He suggests trying to find a place to cut the cards in order to do Simon Aronson's Shuffle-Bored. This was actually done by Alain Nu and you'll find it on Simon's website. ( http://www.simonaronson.com )

I have a small addition to the effect on my Web Site ( http://www.loomismagic.com )in my Article 18.

Dennis Loomis

Here's the updated list of topics:

The Magic Café Thread: Adjuncts to Mem-Deck Use

Started on August 15, 2012 by Dennis Loomis

Aligned Pointer Cards and One-Way Decks
Martin Joyal Aug 22, 2012
DL Sept 13, 2012

Deck Switch Concept, no specifics Aug 15, 2012 DL

Effects which maintain the Stack Order
BarryFernelius Aug 15, 2012

False Cuts
DL August 15, 2012
DL Sept 13, 2012

False Shuffles
Heinstein Aug 15, 2012 DL
Zarrow Aug 15, 2012 DL
Haymow Aug 15, 2012 DL
False-False Shuffle Sept 13, 2012 Woland, Sept. 13 DL

Forces
No Specifics Aug 15, 2012 DL

Faro Shuffle
Chappy Sept 15, 2012

Gaffed Card Boxes
Cohiba Sept 6, 2012
JanForster Sept 12, 2012

Glimpses
Cain Aug 16, 2012

Interlaced Pairs
Nicolino Sept 15, 2012
DL Oct 8, 2012

Knockout Prediction Method
Baobow Sept. 3, 2012

Marked Deck No Specifics
DL Aug 15, 2012
BarryFernelius Sept 5, 2012

Mate Cards
Nicolino Sept 15, 2012
DL Oct 8, 2012

Open Index
BarryFernalius Sept 14, 2012

Partial Stacks
BarryFernelius Aug 15, 2012

Letting the Spectator Shuffle
Cain Aug 15, 2012
DL Aug 15, 2012

Linking Stack Numbers to other lists
BarryFernelius Sept 5, 2012

Locator Cards (Corner Shorts, Scallop Shorts, Short or Long Cards, Breathers, Will De Seive Card (Coin impression Card), Pointer Cards, etc.
DL Aug 15, 2012
Martin Joyal Aug 16, 2012
Nicolino Aug 19, 2012
Llynus Aug 19, 2012
Turk Aug 20, 2012
Duanebarry Aug 20, 2012
Baobow Sept 11, 2012
DL Sept 11, 2012
Eric Richardson Sept 14 2012 and then the free Oasis Sampler
Jack Crafter Sept 15, 2012
Martin Joyal Sept 24, 2012

Not overusing a mem-deck
Baobow Sept 6, 2012

Not keeping card 52 on the bottom persistently
Baobow Sept 6, 2012

Obtaining Any Four of a kind. Attributed to “Behr/Hartling
Cain Aug 15, 2012

Presentation
Tamariz Aug 27, 2012
DL Sept 1, 2012

Reverse Stack Order
BarryFernelius Aug 20, 2012
Baobow Aug 30, 2012
DL Sept 1, 2012
JanForster Sept 2, 2012

Riffle Force
Jack Crafter Sept 15, 2012

Second Deal
DL Aug 15, 2012

Shuffle-bored with the Aronson Stack
Nicolino Sept 15, 2012
DL Oct. 8, 2012

Story Effects like Southside Johnny
DL Aug 15, 2012
Eric Richardson

Swing Cut
Ken Abbott Oct 5, 2012
DL Oct 5, 2012
Ken Abbott Oct 8, 2012

Wouldn't it be great if all threads on the Café were as useful as this one? Just a thought. Congratulations Dennis!

On with the list... I will leave it to Dennis to decide how many principles I am adding below...

Moderators, if I am revealing too much please edit my post.

Card no. 53

The idea of using a joker or duplicate in conjunction with the MD is a simple and great concept.

When an MD is shuffled(out faro) after a card has been removed the stack order can be easily maintained(in the out faro sequence). Because a freely selected card has removed from a random place, it seems even more impossible that one could reposition every single card to a specific new position. This is easily achieved by culling a dupe/joker/xcard under the spread during the selection process and leaving it in the selections position after the selection is removed.

In each subsequent out faro, the xcard will simply fill the space of the selection. The selection can be known by a quick thumb fan and glance at the faces. The joker will stand out and the position of the cards above or below would identify the removed card. Of course this requires that you know the quick calculation for learning a cards position after each out faro....OR begin 2-3 faros from oriiginal MD order before the selection, then shuffle the appropriate number of times before spotting/glimpsing the jokers position to learn the missing card.

This principle can be applied with multiple xcards and selections.

Even better(and bolder) than the underspread cull to position the xcard, have the spectator stab 'a card' into the deck, and remove and pocket either card above or below the stabbed card. After any number of faros the xcard will be in the selections position.

Combining an xcard with basic estimation.
Using the stab method you can estimate the position and after any number of cuts, and a glimpse at the bottom card will indiacte the new region of the joker. This means it is only necessary to see a small number of cards in that region to learn the cards exact identity. This can be achieved by incorporating a simple show or procedure into your presentation where you can turn over a few cards.

Putting work into the xcard opens even more possibilities.

Subconsciously I think the removal or destruction of one or more cards from a full deck, seems to reduce the means to control the remaining cards, as it mow seems that the deck contains an unknown(or previously un-planned) quantity of cards, making any ordering system more difficult or less probable.

Card no. 53

Greg

To Chappy/Greg,

Thanks for this thought. It's new to me and I think it's brilliant. Can't wait to start playing around with it.

If the x-card (a Joker seems a good choice) were a locator card such as a corner or scallop short it could be cut to the top of the deck and a glimpse of the bottom card would tell you what the selected and pocketed card is. The x-card could also be marked.

Now where did I put all of those jokers I've been removing from my decks?



Dennis Loomis

To Chappy/Greg,

I owe you an apology. I missed the sentence: "Putting work into the x-card opens even more possibilities." in your post. I then made that suggestion myself. Didn't mean to steal your thunder. Sorry.

Dennis Loomis

Hi Chappy/Greg,

It's a very interesting principle, but very counter intuitive to use a key card (the joker) to determine the card that it replaces in a mem deck? Glimpsing the card below or above the selected card when it is removed in a nonchalant way would be far less effect to doing the faro shuffles and then going through the deck to remove the joker. Using a crimp in the key card would certainly make things easier but I still think looking through the deck to pull out the joker is a weakness. No matter what you say, ppl will think that you are trying to count the cards or quickly looking through all the cards to elminate the one that is not in the pack...though this is not the method you are using, it is a logical and obvious explaination to determine the missing card.

I think it is an interesting idea for multiple cards but it wouldn't go to all that effort for deducing just one card. But thanks for bringing up this method, it is something that I haven't thought of doing before

Baobow

Thanks Dennis, I am glad you think so too.

Thanks Baobow, I should clarify that I agree looking through the entire deck and openly removing the joker would tip a 'search' or some kind of clocking as the method. I'd never remove the joker but simply glimpse it.

Glimpsing the next card when/just after the selection is made is not a good way to go in my opinion.

Changing the moment of the glimpse from when the selection is made to after a couple of thorough shuffles is far more deceptive for the reasons I outline in my previous post. Using a thumb fan and quickly(1-2 secs)spotting the joker leaves no possibility that you could use clocking as a method. If I could clock a deck in 2 seconds THAT would be my preferred method.

The second method I outlined involves only showing a small number of cards after estimating the region. Either glimpsing or openly showing a few cards can easily be incorporated into or covered by presentation.

Greg