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AutarchicFlux Special user 587 Posts 
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I've been doing card manipulation for many years, though never professionally or on stage. When I learned to manipulate cards back in the 90s, I was a big fan of Peter Marvey's cards, and to a lesser extent, Neilsen's. Any recommendations for products still on the market?
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Anatole Inner circle 1912 Posts
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I like these cards, available from Denny and Lee Magic:
http://dennymagic.com/store/manipulation......ffy.html They are also available with a white back for people who perform with gloves: http://dennymagic.com/store/manipulation......ick.html ----- Amado "Sonny" Narvaez
----- Sonny Narvaez
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Scotty Walsh Loyal user Ireland 207 Posts
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It's a personal thing but a lot of people just like Bee cards either broken in, or not; waxed or powdered, or not. Some people like Burtons, some like Juliana Chen's Sandwich cards, and some Nielsons. The hot one now seems to be (going to order a deck myself) the UGM Bee backed cards -- they are very thin, but poker sized. Those cards are Japanese and as far as I can tell, Steven's is the only retailer of them. There are many others, but those seem to be the most talked about types.
I work with waxed, scraped, Bee's for whatever that's worth. |
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Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts
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There is only 2 decks I would recommend, one is the less expensive Neilson and the other is a China Poker size deck.
Neilsen's are thin and great plastic coated. http://www.nnmagic.com/magicitems/manipulationpage.htm#top These are great, thin plastic coated and can dual purpose. http://www.vikingmagic.com/?nd=full&key=1972 |
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Nick W Special user 515 Posts
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Does anyone agree with this: Id say it depends on your act with cards.
If you only want to do split fans, then a nice thin card with fanning powder can really go on for a while. however you cannot "pop" out a thin card for a single production as fast as you can a Bee card. the stiffness of a standard Bee playing card allows the single production to literally appear in your hand. POP. However if you start split fanning Bee's your stock wont last as long, because they are thicker. |
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Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts
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Nick W, I think Juliana Chen would disagree with you, as do I. Only amateurs that do not want to spend more then $3 for a deck use ordinary modern plastic coated Bee cards. These have never been used by the pros that originally used the original Steamboat poker cards when they 1st were manufactured in thin none plastic coated poker size playing cards. Why, because plastic coating was not invented yet.
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Darkwing Inner circle Nashville Tn 1850 Posts
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It is a matter of preference and you should try different cards and see what works for you.
I do use the Bees for split fans and some snap productions because I am very hard on the cards with those productions. The Norm Nielson cards just don't hold up for me but I do use the Nielson cards for Cardini Single Card productions. I am not an amateur in the since of the word as it applies to being a magician. I do consider myself as a pro. However the word amateur is not a bad word since it comes the French word that means "for the love of" which I would wear equally as proud. Bill I have a lot of respect for you and your vast knowledge of magic especially manipulation but I have to respectfully disagree with you on the use of Bee cards. I use them all the time and the work very well for me. David |
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Scotty Walsh Loyal user Ireland 207 Posts
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Maybe I'm wrong, but I am pretty sure that both Jeff Sheridan and Jeff McBride both used Bees.
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Darkwing Inner circle Nashville Tn 1850 Posts
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I actually saw Jeff McBride at a convention sitting in a theatre watching a lecture and he was doing card manipulations with Bees.
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Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts
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To spend hours breaking in a normal deck of "Bee" playing cards is just nonsense. They have more disadvantages then advantages, and there is not need to go into them as I spent years suffering with normal playing cards trying to get them to work. Then the manipulation decks finally arrived on the market, what a god send.
So what if you have to go through a Nielsen deck, I read that as being cheap. If I am wrong and you have other reasons, they were not understood. Currently, Nielsen is selling decks in bulk. When you can open a manipulation deck, give them treatment of powder, shuffle them, and then start using them, I know that is the best solution, to work on the show material, and not be spending hours screwing with cards. As I said "professional" Jeff Sheridan is/was a street performer who dropped the cards on the street, rain or shine. Jeff McBride just did not want to spill the truth on his card videos. I have not seen a professional routine from either of these gentleman, though, the only snips I have seen of McBride is kind of bad. In the training videos, McBride was using Bicycles as I recall. He sells brown back cards that he calls his cards. In regular and thin cards. He has never tipped or said what he really uses. The training videos are good, but he never does a routine. Anyone can show the moves, it is another to actually use them skillfully. I know you guys just want to make it hard on the new guys, so I will give them the real scoop and the best cards to use in manipulations. I am firm on this, and in my opinion, you guys are totally wrong on the use of a standard Bee deck. Show me your Chavez School of Magic diploma and I will show you mine. |
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Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-08-18 03:36, Darkwing wrote: So that means nothing, I play with cards all the time as well. Or maybe he was practicing his move for Close-up. |
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JamesinLA Inner circle Los Angeles 3400 Posts
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Avoiding the subject of which cards, but just to point out, I think McBride performing his card production routines are availble on Youtube. His routine in performance is very good and very entertaining. I've seen him do it at the magic castle as well as on video.
Jim
Oh, my friend we're older but no wiser, for in our hearts the dreams are still the same...
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Darkwing Inner circle Nashville Tn 1850 Posts
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Since this is a forum set up for magicians helping magicians and the question is what is the best manipulation cards on the market, this is what I have found. Each person's hands are different. What works for some may not work for others. That is the reason why I encourage a guy who is just starting out to go out and buy several different types of manipulation decks. I use Bees not because they are cheap but tought. Like I said before when I do split fan productions, snap productions, and the interlaced production, I am very hard on the cards and my Nielson manipulation card just don't hold up under those situations. When I am doing Cardini single card productions, I use Nielsons which work very well. I also hand an occasion where I had to palm a large stock of cards as a part of a routine. The Bees were just too big for my hands but the Nielsons were just right. When I was back stage and was warming my hands up with the Nielsons, I was having problems with the new Nielson cards not wanting to fan, etc. I thought it was just me so I handed the deck to a fellow magician to see if he could work the deck and he hand the same problem. I then pulled an older deck of Nielsons I had as a back up and they worked just fine. All cards you use have their pluses and minuses. Yes it is true you have to break in Bees while other cards you can start using them right out of the pack.
I enjoy collecting manipulation and fanning decks so I have the opportunity to handle a lot of different decks; some good some not so good. My conclusions on manipulation cards are purly empirical. Hope that helps. David |
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magicians Inner circle Teacher and Legend 2898 Posts
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McBride's original cards of choice were steam boats.
Illusionist, Illusionist consulting, product development, stage consultant, seasoned performer for over 35 years. Specializing in original effects. Highly opinionated, usually correct, and not afraid of jealous critics. I've been a puppet, a pirate, a pawn and a King. Free lance gynecologist.
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Harry Murphy Inner circle Maryland 5445 Posts
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I like Murphy's manipulation cards. They are pricy (very pricy compared to the Nielsen cards) but have "Murphy" printed on the back of the flesh tone/brownish back colored cards. OK, I also like them because my name is Murphy and I am vain (egomaniacal!).
Actually I use the Murphy's and the Nielsen's about equally and consider both very good for the task. I had a couple of decks that Jeff McBride sells and other than the back design could not tell the differeance between them and the Nielsen's or the Murphy's. The differences may just be too subtle for me to discern. I wonder if all of the manipulation cards available are manufactured by the same company with different back designs. I don't know. I must confess that I am doing less and less card manipulation due to arthritis. I find that my well worn and well used Nielsen's (my oldest decks) are very easy to use and I'd say gentle to my old hands. As to using "regular" playing cards like Bee's or Bicycle I'd say that if you have the time and know how to break them in and like using them then do so. The Great Raymon (Raymond Corbin) used only regular decks that he bought in bulk and broke in himself. He had huge hands and standard manipulation card looked tiny and silly in his hands. Much like everything else in magic it is horses for courses. The best deck for manipulation is the one that you use. I strongly recommend that if you find a deck that is perfect for you then buy a couple of gross of the things. They will become unavailable or will change in someway just when you need them the most.
The artist formally known as Mumblepeas!
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Darkwing Inner circle Nashville Tn 1850 Posts
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Great post, Harry.
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magicians Inner circle Teacher and Legend 2898 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-08-18 13:27, magicians wrote: 
Illusionist, Illusionist consulting, product development, stage consultant, seasoned performer for over 35 years. Specializing in original effects. Highly opinionated, usually correct, and not afraid of jealous critics. I've been a puppet, a pirate, a pawn and a King. Free lance gynecologist.
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Darkwing Inner circle Nashville Tn 1850 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-08-18 12:26, Darkwing wrote: Crap, I misspelled tough. |
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Darkwing Inner circle Nashville Tn 1850 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-08-18 13:35, magicians wrote: Boy Ian, I wished I could find more Steamboats. |
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Harry Murphy Inner circle Maryland 5445 Posts
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Dang Ian, I totally forgot those wonderful steamboat's! I started practicing card manipulation with Steamboat's bought at Walgreen's back in the day. I may still have an old deck laying around somewhere.
The artist formally known as Mumblepeas!
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Posted: Aug 17, 2012 06:10 pm 
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