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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The spooky, the mysterious...the bizarre! » » Video, Youtube & Secrets (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

revenantproductions
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Hello All,

There has been a fair amount of chat about video in several threads today so I thought I would start a thread specifically on the topic.

As a working performer I view youtube as a necessary evil. When booking a show it is the one thing every agent and venue wants to see. Thus I take 2 tracks to deal with this.

First I use the unlisted option. It allows us to provide video to those we need to give video to without it becoming public, this is also the method I use to post video here in the Café if I want to share with members of this forum.

Second, when I post something that will be used publicly, I try to be ambiguous. That is to say that I try to make a short film that conveys the nature of the show without showing any effects. If I do show an effect, I display it out of context. I have a video that has a DCK in it that is public but is not displayed in a performance setting.

Video is essential to securing bookings, but I believe it's use must be approached in the same manner as one would approach an effect. The methods and techniques must be guarded.

I like to post video here in the Café from performances because I know that many who visit this forum are not full time performers and that seeing effects in use can be helpful. Seeing someone actually use a piece that you are considering buying might allow someone to decide if a particular effect is right for them or not. It may also spark an idea for someone or even inspire someone to look at an old effect in a new way. When I post a video to the Café however I do so with an unlisted link. I also make such posts in the hope that those who view them will not repost them.

I must confess that I deeply regret signing one such post with my own name as that has resulted in a google hit that leads back to this forum. In spite of a request to have this post removed it remains and for that I am deeply sorry. This is why it is so important to use symbols and deceptive wording when posting.

Finally, I believe that before you post a video or perform an effect on television, you have an obligation to discuss the matter with the originator of any effect to be featured. Earlier this year I was approached by an agent who saw our show and wanted us to do AGT. This offer was declined because we spoke with Rick and agreed that his effects were not suited to such a public forum and to present them on national television would be harmful to the majority of those who perform such effects. For everything there is a time and place and that is not a place for us or what we do.

These are just a few of my views on this topic and I encourage others to share theirs here as well. At the end of the day it is a fine line between promotion and protection, but it is essential to stay on the protection side of that line. To cross it only harms us all.

Best,
RP
lozey
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AGT with seance props, cant help but think of that scene from 'the magicians' with the remote controlled tamberines LOL
Godzilla
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Quote:
On 2012-08-19 22:04, lozey wrote:
AGT with seance props, cant help but think of that scene from 'the magicians' with the remote controlled tamberines LOL






EXACTLY ! Smile
"If you watch Godzilla backwards, it's about a big ass lizard who helps rebuild a half burnt-down city, then moonwalks back into the ocean"
Michael_MacDonald
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One of the keys is to have a different name for the effect that is never used in the show setting, that way when they look up ch they never get cross linked to lun@. I tend never to give the actual marketed name for any routine I use so that when they google it the chances of them hitting it are very slim. right now I'm actually using routines that have a strong historical presence on the net so any hits will be buried so far down that they wont be seen.
Godzilla
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Errrr...I thought what Michael posted, was or should be a common pratice !

Just curios...What percentage of audience,do you guys think, go and google after a performance,to find out details ? 1%, 25%, 75%, 99.9%

What percent during a performance?

Not saying, any should be able to google, just how many think they do ?

Gary
"If you watch Godzilla backwards, it's about a big ass lizard who helps rebuild a half burnt-down city, then moonwalks back into the ocean"
Michael_MacDonald
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It depends on how it is performed and presented. if your performing magic for a younger crowd 35% will want to know how you did it. if your performing for an older crowed less then 5%. that's magic. now with some historical effects a lot of people will want to see it just to relive the moment. are they looking for secrets? no they just had such a strong emotional experience and for some it was liberating enough that they will want to feel it again. if you present it as a challenge then they will challenge you. if you present it as real then they will not be looking to catch you out.
PROF BC
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It should be remembered that names like LVN@ actually are the 'down low' name of the effect. That word never appears on the prop or in the performance of the routine. The same applies to PHANTOMS, DarkSpell and GH*ST.

With LVN@ (which I write this way out of respect for my colleagues) the danger comes with writing out C0lne7 H@7ch, which is used on the prop and in performance and therefore could easily be discovered in a Google search.

Youtube? I agree with revenantproductions. Michael_MacDonald is also quite right in saying 'if you present it as real then they will not be looking to catch you out.'

I perform for college students and adults alike and have never yet had anyone Google-expose my show. Not once. Can it happen? I suppose. All they might discover, however, is that I used a prop & performance that is not unique to me. There is a danger in that, but not the one that is usually discussed on this forum.

Though I play my routines 'straight' (with the conviction of reality), I do not hide the fact that I am performing for entertainment--spooky, atmospheric entertainment, to be sure, that requires the show to be presented as 'real'--but a show nevertheless. I find that my audiences understand that fact, allow themselves to be caught up in the theatrical reality of the moment, and leave the show feeling creepily entertained. Still in all, I would find it distasteful if someone were able to use a quick search to see that what I use are merely theatrical props.

As Michael has suggested, it is the hallmark of this art form to present a show or routine in such a manner that the spec never reaches the 'how'd you do that' mindset (that has gone far to destroy popular magic generally since at least the 1950's). The goal of the bizarre movement (so to speak) is to restore the sense of wonder to the magical performance.

The issue, therefore, is not really about protecting our secrets. If I may offer a working philosophy:

I believe the real issue here is trying to keep the punters curious. We are trying to open minds and jar the complacency bred of consumerism. If a punter Googles C0lne7 H@7ch, we want him to fall deeper under the spell we wove during performance. We want him to discover the truth behind our performance, to see with new eyes the world he inhabits. The moment his search reveals the LVN@ prop & its price, the punter snaps right back into his old and customary consumer mentality, equates price with value, plasticizes his perceptions, and at that moment all of our hard work is defeated.

Hence, not to hide our secrets or methods but rather to open other (more satisfying) doorways (and to extend the effect of our performances), we must indeed keep our props under the Google radar and off the public YouTube spaces.

Best,
BC
Phasmologist
mota
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You really don't need to show any tricks. An agent or party planner is mainly concerned with audience reaction.
Michael_MacDonald
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PROF BC,

you are at the forefront of a brave new world of artful presentation. it is items like the books mentioned above and some of the effects now being produced combined with realistic presentation that will bring back the mystery and magic for the world.

it is amazing how many new performers are actually stepping away from the box and delving into less solid ground for the sake of creation of pure art and mystique. a dawning of a brave new world my friends and your all helping to progress what our founders have started so many years ago. its our conviction and belief in what we do that will make the sitters want to believe and not just find out how we did it. they need for it to be real if even for just a short time.\

this is what creates memories that last a life time. through those memories and stories that are passed down about this "guy that took us back in time...." is where our imortality lies. we become personal history and urban legends.

how cool is that?
Dougini
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I think the idea of the Ins@ne @sylum is cutting edge. I spent almost a year in a place such as this, disguised as a Homeless Shelter! We had the usual depraved and insane, on psychotropic drugs, and wandering the halls talking to themselves. I witnessed it first hand.

L*n@ has a special place in my heart. I can make it REAL for people, so I have to be careful. This is a need in magic. It's all been reduced to puzzles, and "how did you do that?" After reading Walt Anthony's book, it all changed. I vowed to never again let MY magic stoop to such low levels. No more am I going to be embarrassed and laughed at because someone had a cell phone and Googled "Cap in Bottle".

Using the "private" feature of YouTube is fine, as long as, as you said, no one re-posts it. That can and has happened. Happily, I am among mature and thoughtful performers that put a great value on their props and routines! I am so glad I came! Smile

Doug
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