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Marlin1894 Special user 559 Posts |
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On 2012-10-24 17:23, acesover wrote: Floyd Landis pops immediately to mind. 2006 or 2007 he won the Tour De France and was later stripped of the title. |
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acesover Special user I believe I have 821 Posts |
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On 2012-10-24 17:29, Marlin1894 wrote: Thanks for that info. I did not know anything about Landis. As I say I do not follow cycling but do admire the conditioning of them as I feel they are probably the best conditioned athelets in the world, even a step above Ultimate Fighters when talking about conditioning as they perform day after day with no recoup time excet a nights sleep in many cases. If I am not mistaken the Tour De france lasts 3 weks or 21 straight days of racing. I cannot think of any sport more demanding than that as what they put their bodies through for 21 stsraight days with no recoup time other than a nights sleep. It just lends itself to drugs, not saying it should but it does. Just imagine pushing your body to exaustion 21 days in a row. How about a ittle pick me up? No one will know, besides everyone is doing it. OK lets try it. Obviously not a defense but I think it shows how easily it can start. A most difficult sport to police for doping I would imagine. Next thing you know they will try it in Horse Racing.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
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stoneunhinged Inner circle 3067 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-10-24 17:26, Ray Tupper. wrote: OJ murdered Nicole Brown Simpson. Slide had a bit of a brain fart. Doesn't change his point, though. Regardless of what happened in the trial, it was beyond reasonable doubt that OJ did it. So whatever we think of Lance, the standard of "innocent until proven guilty" is a legal standard, not a reality standard. @Tommy: by the legal standard, probably any court in the Anglo Saxon world would have convicted Lee Harvey Oswald of murdering JFK. But that doesn't mean Oswald did it. In the same way, just because a court might fail to convict Lance of doping, it doesn't mean he didn't. |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
That's what you think.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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S2000magician Inner circle Yorba Linda, CA 3465 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-10-24 18:08, stoneunhinged wrote: Presumed innocent until proven guilty. |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Speaking of what they do in criminal proceedings, if a defendant fiesta contest the charges against him, his plea is treated as a guilty plea, except that it can't be used against him in a subsequent civil trial.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-10-24 14:26, tommy wrote: Actually, yes, he did. But he had sufficient influence to get it (them) disregarded.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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Mr. Mystoffelees Inner circle I haven't changed anyone's opinion in 3623 Posts |
So, how many "eye witnesses" are equal to one provable fact? Does that ratio change if the eye witnesses had ulterior motives for such testimony, or if they are proven liars?
Also, is the long arm of the regulators now retroactive in the US of A? Let us say, for the sake of this debate, that no one has testified to Lance doping until the third TDF. Why is he then stripped of the "clean" titles? Is it adultery if it is proven to one spouse that the other had sex with someone else before they were married?
Also known, when doing rope magic, as "Cordini"
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Slide Special user 533 Posts |
"OJ murdered Nicole Brown Simpson. Slide had a bit of a brain fart."
Ha! yes. I guess deep down, I don't care much for Nicole Kidman. |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
There is a massive difference between untested and tested evidence.
I recall not long ago the five times champion jockey of England was being accused of cheating. He was suspended from ridding here in England and he and five others were arrested and charged. Many people were giving their two cents then, saying the evidence is overwhelming and off with his head and all of that. You can still read it on internet chat forums from the time. The evidence was put to the test and failed. Kieren Fallon expressed fury at unfounded accusations of race-fixing after his £10 million trial collapsed in dramatic fashion. Fallon and five other men were acquitted by an Old Bailey jury. Then Kieren Fallon was allowed to ride again etc. A few years ago I personally stood trial in the face of overwhelming evidence. Evidence in the form of dozens of police offices testimony. Testimony which, if taken at face value, proved I was guilty beyond any doubt whatsoever. At trial however, where the police evidence could be and was put to the test there it failed. I was acquitted and the officers got busted for perjury and for conspiracy to pervert the course of justice etc. Presumed innocent until proven guilty, is a rule. If you break that rule then what are you but a cheat? My hypocrisy, by the way, knows no bounds. :)
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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spatlind Special user still moving 863 Posts |
Presumed innocent blah and bluster, it's not a criminal trial
Actions lie louder than words - Carolyn Wells
I believe in God, only I spell it Nature - Frank Lloyd Wright. |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Yes I agree Armstrong has been found guilty by a Kangaroo court.
A Kangaroo court is "a mock court in which the principles of law and justice are disregarded or perverted.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Mr. Mystoffelees Inner circle I haven't changed anyone's opinion in 3623 Posts |
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On 2012-10-25 08:54, spatlind wrote: Let he who is without stones cast the first guilt...
Also known, when doing rope magic, as "Cordini"
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acesover Special user I believe I have 821 Posts |
Stoneunhinged said:
@Tommy: by the legal standard, probably any court in the Anglo Saxon world would have convicted Lee Harvey Oswald of murdering JFK. But that doesn't mean Oswald did it. In the same way, just because a court might fail to convict Lance of doping, it doesn't mean he didn't. -------------------------------------------------------------- I would not bet my life on that outcome. I do not think any jury would find him innocent. However I believe you would come up with a few hung juries and guilty verdicts.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
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On 2012-10-25 08:17, tommy wrote: Again, if you want to adopt legal parallels, you only have to be proven guilty if you contest the charges. "nolo contendere (no-low kahn-ten-durr-ray) n. Latin for "I will not contest" the charges which is a plea made by a defendant to a criminal charge, allowing the judge to then find him/her guilty, often called a "plea of no contest." (See: no contest)"
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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stoneunhinged Inner circle 3067 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-10-25 11:59, acesover wrote: That wasn't really my point. My point was that some people--like Tommy--believe that there are hidden puppeteers behind the scenes, and that the Kennedy assassination is an example of puppeteering, and that legal proceedings (in this particular case, not courts but congressional committees) scarcely scratch the surface of the truth. Yet in the Armstrong case, he seems to think that the USADA (the government body) are the puppeteers. It's not a contradiction. But it seems a change in tactics. Why couldn't Lance be an example of non-governmental puppeteers. Maybe the New World Order wanted Lance to win for their own nefarious purposes, and the USPS (a governmental body!) conspired with them to ensure that it would happen. The drugging part was easy: heck, the CIA has more experience with drug running than all other drug runners combined. Piece of cake!. So the Trilateralist Commission gets together withe the United States Postal Service and the Union Cycliste Internationale to produce the Lance Armstrong Conquers Cancer and Wins us All Millions campaign. Sounds like something Tommy would subscribe to. So I'm surprised he's on Lance's side. :jump: |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Inter alia, all the so called witness's in their affidavits in the body of evidence state on oath:
“I understand that this affidavit will be submitted in legal proceedings.” Presumed innocent until proven guilty, is a rule, one which applies to an accused facing legal proceedings. If you break that rule then what are you but a cheat?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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S2000magician Inner circle Yorba Linda, CA 3465 Posts |
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On 2012-10-24 21:31, LobowolfXXX wrote: Seriously, Lobo: dump the droid. |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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acesover Special user I believe I have 821 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-10-25 12:41, stoneunhinged wrote: It would be better if they would give our mail carriers bycycles and drugs so we could get the mail faster.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
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