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NicholasD Inner circle 1458 Posts |
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On 2012-08-25 10:06, spatlind wrote: Maybe he's just tired of dealing with every idiot who comes along with an agenda. Giving back trophies doesn't change what was accomplished. No-one wins seven Tour de France titles and conquers cancer without being an exraordinarily dedicated super athlete. A hundred years ago, Jim Thorpe was stripped of his Olympic medals over a "rule" that's pretty much a joke today. Yet he's still a legend of sports. In the next hundred years, I wonder how many athletes will win as many Tour de France titles as Lance Armstrong, with or without drugs. |
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TonyB2009 Inner circle 5006 Posts |
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On 2012-08-25 07:36, spatlind wrote: I have no issue with those journalists. I just feel it is important to remember they are not impartial. They have their agendas.
Check out Tony's new thriller Dead or Alive http://www.amazon.co.uk/Alive-Varrick-Bo......n+carson
http://www.PartyMagic.ie |
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spatlind Special user still moving 863 Posts |
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On 2012-08-25 10:35, NicholasD wrote: I don't doubt his talent. But I don't buy the "I'm weary" defence. Then why did he try to take out an injunction against the case being brought against him? It's only when he lost that case that he decided he was tired of it all.
Actions lie louder than words - Carolyn Wells
I believe in God, only I spell it Nature - Frank Lloyd Wright. |
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Danny Kazam Inner circle 1516 Posts |
Let's talk about Armstrong's agenda. It may be true that everyone has an agenda, but let's be clear what those agenda's are. The biggest agenda is to clean the sport up of all the drugs, and if some actually believe they all dope up, that is hearsay. What Armstrong is guilty of is not hearsay. What kind of person watches his teammates get caught doping while he denies any use?
I used to admire him, but we are not entitled to see the evidence. We are not appointed the judges over this matter. We don't have to see all the evidence they have on Armstrong, and I can bet you Armstrong is very fine with that. This is silly, Armstrong bowed out so that the evidence would not be heard. If he continued, evidence would of been presented that would of been more damaging to Armstrong's image. To keep the evidence from becoming public, Armstrong choose to quit. A man who overcame Cancer and never quit decides to quit defending himself at a point where evidence was going to be exposed. His only option left was to bow out and hope the evidence never see's the light of day. No secret agenda, no conspiracy, and no witch hunt. Karma caught up with Armstrong. Or, more accurate...technology caught up with him.
Keep your dreams alive. Understand to achieve anything requires faith and belief in yourself, vision, hard work, determination, and dedication. Remember all things are possible for those who believe.
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stoneunhinged Inner circle 3067 Posts |
Here's Lance's statement on his website:
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Today I turn the page. I will no longer address this issue, regardless of the circumstances. I will commit myself to the work I began before ever winning a single Tour de France title: serving people and families affected by cancer, especially those in underserved communities. This October, my Foundation will celebrate 15 years of service to cancer survivors and the milestone of raising nearly $500 million. We have a lot of work to do and I’m looking forward to an end to this pointless distraction. I have a responsibility to all those who have stepped forward to devote their time and energy to the cancer cause. I will not stop fighting for that mission. Here's how I feel (and this is very personal): at this point, I could care less what Lance did or didn't do on a bike. My sister has cancer, my musical partner Hans has cancer, and I have lost several friends to cancer. And in the long run, bicycle racing is just a sport. Cancer is a disease that is taking our loved ones away from us. If he cheated, his contribution to cancer research doesn't excuse his cheating. But I don't choose to think of him as a bicycle racing hero anymore. I choose to think of him as a man who fought cancer and beat it, and is doing his best to help others beat it too. |
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Cain Inner circle Los Angeles, CA 1550 Posts |
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On 2012-08-25 07:16, TonyB2009 wrote: Clearly sports is about being the best. Winning. All glory goes to the winners. Screw fair play. What's that anyway? Our Orwellian language would have us believe it means "Sportsmanship." The team with the best athletes should win. Well, the team with the best athletes *and* the best doctors should win. Life ain't fair. I don't think athletes should be looked upon as role-models. No, they're gods.
Ellusionst discussing the Arcane Playing cards: "Michaelangelo took four years to create the Sistine Chapel masterpiece... these took five."
Calvin from Calvin and Hobbes: "You know Einstein got bad grades as a kid? Well, mine are even worse!" |
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NicholasD Inner circle 1458 Posts |
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On 2012-08-25 12:19, Cain wrote: The time of competing for the "Glory of Sport" is long past. I remember when only "amateurs" were to compete in the Olympic games. Even as far back as the '50's, it was common knowledge that the Russians brought full time athletes to the Olympics, and, dominated in many sports. And, of course, recently, we send our professional basketball teams to trounce the opposition. How good does that make anyone feel? Drug testing and the drugs themselves become more sophisticated each year. As has been mentioned before, many more athletes than we know about or will ever know about may be using drug enhancement. I'm guessing that at some point in the future, drug testing in sports will be abandoned and if one wishes to compete at the highest levels on the world stage, the decision to use drug enhancement or not will be left to the individual. |
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TonyB2009 Inner circle 5006 Posts |
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On 2012-08-25 13:26, NicholasD wrote: I think it is the only sane approach.
Check out Tony's new thriller Dead or Alive http://www.amazon.co.uk/Alive-Varrick-Bo......n+carson
http://www.PartyMagic.ie |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
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On 2012-08-25 09:49, Mr. Mystoffelees wrote: It seems akin to a "No Contest" plea in American court, which is essentially a guilty plea that can't be used as evidence against you in a subsequent civil case.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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Mr. Mystoffelees Inner circle I haven't changed anyone's opinion in 3623 Posts |
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On 2012-08-25 11:39, Danny Kazam wrote: What is silly is thinking Armstrong is too stupid to realize that the "evidence" will come out anyway. "Never see the light of day"? Wait for the books...
Also known, when doing rope magic, as "Cordini"
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Danny Kazam Inner circle 1516 Posts |
You're right, how silly of me. (lol)
Stonehedge, what you said seriously touched me. I too have lost family members to cancer. My father at the age of 49, and my older brother at the age of 42. My mother at the age of 64, My Great Aunt, another Aunt, all very close to me. If Armstrong is going to dedicate himself to helping others with Cancer I commend him for it, and give him my respect for doing it.
Keep your dreams alive. Understand to achieve anything requires faith and belief in yourself, vision, hard work, determination, and dedication. Remember all things are possible for those who believe.
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Cain Inner circle Los Angeles, CA 1550 Posts |
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On 2012-08-25 13:26, NicholasD wrote: I'm ignorant of the science, so I can't form a strong opinion, but if the testing technology lags behind the doping tech by five or ten years, then it might be viable to store blood samples and bust these cheaters down the line. However, there are credible doubts these athletes are that future-time oriented; after all, they're willing to take drugs that negatively impact their long-term health. Glory today is far better than glory ten years from now. Who would like to learn that you won a race eight years ago? You find out through a phone call. You're not gonna get sponsor money or television appearances. There's also the argument that the line's already blurred by things like LASEK. Eye surgery improved Tiger Woods' vision to better than 20/20. Concerns about steroids also tend to be way overblown (as discussed in the interesting documentary BIGGER, STRONGER, FASTER). Nevertheless, I think we should maintain a ban on harmful substances; some athletes only take drugs because they feel it's the only way to compete, and as a consequence they hurt their health.
Ellusionst discussing the Arcane Playing cards: "Michaelangelo took four years to create the Sistine Chapel masterpiece... these took five."
Calvin from Calvin and Hobbes: "You know Einstein got bad grades as a kid? Well, mine are even worse!" |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
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On 2012-08-25 19:36, Cain wrote: I agree with this.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
David Walsh, The Sunday Times and the whole of Rupert Murdoch's media empire, have been proven in The High Court to have been lying about Mr Armstrong taking performance enhancing drugs. They, David Walsh, The Sunday Times and the whole of Rupert Murdoch's media empire had their chance to put up or shut up in that High Court case. They did not put up sand had to shut up and sincerely apologise to Mr Armstrong for their lies. Lies based on a book written by David Walsh. Mr Armstrong walked away from the sport in 2011 without being charged following a two-year federal criminal investigation into many of the same accusations he faces from USADA and federal criminal investigators should have sincerely apologise to Mr Armstrong also. Mr Armstrong says he is innocent and to his accusers he says, put up or shut up. The USADA are now going strip Mr Armstrong of his titles without putting up. Well how very sporting of them. We the people can read all about it.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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S2000magician Inner circle Yorba Linda, CA 3465 Posts |
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On 2012-08-25 09:49, Mr. Mystoffelees wrote: I presume that you meant "presumed innocent until proven guilty." Whether one is innocent or not doesn't depend on what can be proven ex post facto. |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
In dubio pro reo
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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S2000magician Inner circle Yorba Linda, CA 3465 Posts |
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On 2012-08-25 20:14, tommy wrote: That's a translation, not a argument. |
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Mr. Mystoffelees Inner circle I haven't changed anyone's opinion in 3623 Posts |
Well, then, here is the argument:
If a person is charged with a crime, then they must be "presumed" innocent until proven guilty. In this particular case, I am not aware of such charges. Perhaps I started my quotation one word too late, but I don't think so. I feel warmly ensconced in current vernacular... http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/sports/......-guilty/ Jim
Also known, when doing rope magic, as "Cordini"
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NicholasD Inner circle 1458 Posts |
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On 2012-08-25 19:42, LobowolfXXX wrote: Who, in this information age, doesn't know that taking drugs may be harmful? When I first began competing in weightlifting in 1968, drugs that we knew little about at that time were being used by weightlifters and bodybuilders. Being relatively naive about these things at the time, I asked my doctor about them, at which point he informed me about the harm they could do. I never thought about taking drugs again. Today, it's pretty much common knowledge. So, I'm not convinced that anyone who uses drugs for performance enhancement doesn't know the risks. |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
It is argument in court.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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