Thanks, Doug. It's come down a bit from 1000 since our height at the Harry Potter "boom". This year we had around 700 students all told. O, if only the Harry Potter days were still here!

I don't know about any Lance Burtons or David Copperfields. But we have had counselors who have turned pro, and of that I'm very proud.

I also reject the idea of using fake-looking magic props. I also agree that most of the younger generation is looking for realism in the props. It's so much better to see normal items used in magical ways instead of just another big magic box. Ugh! Part of the reason I think most "kids" ARE looking for more realism is the street magic boom that we've enjoyed over the past decade. The focus is on normal items - the power lies with the magician and not the prop.

But I think the point Jim was making is that if you want to be considered a professional illusionist, you shouldn't be on stage with a cardboard box when you can have a nice laminated wooden one instead. Thus, props should look nice - not fake, but nice.

Now, depending on the story and use, a cardboard box may be just fine. But if your whole show consists of cardboard boxes, you are going to need a great reason to carry that off well - esp. if people are paying to see an illusion show!

It's rare to see someone arguing their case logically. I rather enjoyed the read.

Just so you know, Steinmeyer isn't reallyt a "builder." He's a creator/designer/whatever-you-wanna-call-it-other-than-builder. The builders are the guys who actually put together the props and Steinmeyer doesn't do that.

Just a comment on a beautiful red wooden box with dragons or what ever painted on it. It is not the box that does the trick, but the magician. How, as it is his box and he created the magic from or within this special box he possesses. Therefore, he is causing the magic that happens in the box.

Ordinary props are great for close-up magic, as it is meant to make it seem more impromptu. When presenting a stage / stand-up show, using a painted box and draw interest to hold the audience and give tangible items to connect with as an audience.

This can also help to separate you from all the other magicians you are competing with, as you are the only one that possesses this box. If all the others own your box, they will consider you common, and just like all the other magicians, so why hire you over the others.

This has not been done to my knowledge, but it may be wise to even use a box when it is not necessary. Add a box to a trick, when it is not necessary, this will also stop all the coping going on in the market currently.

I for one is of the opinion if I do a magic act with no props at all, I am not giving my audience anything tangible. Thus when they are asked, what did the magician do, they will say more then, "He did a lot of tricks." It would be much better if they said, "It is the guy who does a great trick with that red box." He did this and that, and it was very mystifying to experience."

I think it just the way you want to look at the different sides of how an audience sees magic, magicians actually don't see it from that standpoint, as they know how all their tricks work.

magicbymccauley, people on the Café are not interested in discussions, as mentioned earlier in this thread. They don't like to discuss the real secret to magic, presentation. I have tried several times, and the topics are still waiting for a discussion. They only want to know about the latest trick and where to buy it, or how it is done. We all know men hate to talk, as all the women who complain about their husbands who will not talk to them. Others, think it is not worth discussing what they know. But they love to put down and attack people, this reveals how smart, knowledgeable and intelligent, they really are.

Uh...I think I understand your point, but honestly the box DOES do the trick in many cases. But I think you were saying that if two magicians had the same box and one of them was a better performer, he's the guy doing the best magic - so the performer makes the trick moreso than the box.

I'd prefer a good linking rings routine to another magic box trick any day of the week! ...and I think the audience would as well. Certainly not everyone...as magic is known for having boxes - but I think nowdays it's becoming the thing to do (avoiding yet another magic box).

I don't use a single large magic box in my show. I've found creative ways to include large illusions without having to use boxes. (I'm not completely against them, of course). The other point to note is that some of these "large" illusions are just segways for me. For instance, I use a Creative Magic Cube Squared illusion in my show. However, I only use it to produce a few beach balls for another routine so it's just a quick little segway into the actual routine. The audience likes it and I don't make a big deal of the production. So there's no 90 seconds of dancing and music just to produce some beach balls. But some guys can get away with that sort of show! Just not my thing I guess. I want to be entertaining and I think the audience paid to see magic, not dancing. (I think Lance Burton is a true master of this idea of classic magic and theming.) Lance might have used a few boxes now and again, but there was SO much magic packed into his show that the dancing and costumes, etc all accented the magic instead of the other way around (like most guys do). I think the thought process is that they have this 10000 dollar trick that lasts 10 seconds so they need to dress it up. You can (and should) dress things up, but don't overdo it so that you lose sight of the trick itself.

On stage you are either selling yourself or you are selling the props. I think that if you are selling the props or illusions, that you could have better luck just selling the stuff on a used illusion site.
The greats of magic always sell themselfs first and foremost.
Angel, Blaine,Copperfield,S and Roy etc. (THey are larger than the props that they perform.)
Their personalities and character stands out.

If you go see one of these type shows, you leave feeling good about the experience of this event. THis is an EXAMPLE> Well that is the goal..
Maybe his jokes, his look, his costumes, his music, his sets, his crew, his mic and sound and just over all show. Not just the illusions or magic.

If you leave an average Joe's act... You may say, I really liked his Interlude and origami.. Man John Gaughan is a great
builder and Jim Steinmeyer has great inventions..

But the number one goal in magic is to have the lay audience love you. If the magicians also love you, well that's an extra blessing.

My opinion

TR

Love it!

Worst Zig Zag performance ever:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5ZHjfUaHSM

Just about, although I've actually seen one fall apart on stage.

Jim Baker you're a font of hillarity! I was rolling after that one!

Ouch!

I've seen even worse Zig-Zags. What about the one where a guy stuffs his fat wife in the thing? He could barely move the center section half way!

A prop can add eye candy to a show, but gaudy props aren't eye candy. I've seen skilled performers use an illusion with a glittery finish and have an audience eating out of their hand. But, most "magicians" can't do that.

As for performers doing something "different", it's only a way to make a performer stand out from the herd. I've been entertained by stock presentations, if the performer is good. The average laymen sees so few magic performances, if any, so "different" doesn't really figure into the equation. But, he does have to compete with other forms of entertainment.

Sorry if I'm late to the show, but I just saw the Robert Harbin version of zig zag and that is amazing! Thanks!

I too am sorry I am late here. So I heard about some fat wife in the zig zag.........sounds like a great topic so far, I shall read further

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pCjbZ3ra_0&feature=related

Here's to magicians who lack common sense and have fat wives!

Looking at the length of the original post and the time it takes to type the replies, I wonder when you guys have time to perform shows.

Magicbymccauley has only commented on page 25 of Jim Steinmeyer book and It will be fascinating to see the reaction to the post when mccauley turns to page 26

You know, if that zig zag had been made correctly or a little differently, that fat lady could have made it more impressive. Talking up the fact that she completely fills the box in every way. Some times I truly feel that sometimes magic would be better if little girls werent always used... Maybe I'm wrong. But that performance was terrible. But not because of the fat assistant

>Looking at the length of the original post and the time it takes to type the replies, I wonder when you guys have time to perform shows.

If you get paid enough for your carrer, it affords you a lot of free time to contemplate your show and thus make it better. People who are well compensated have lots of free time. People who aren't well compensated are always scrambling for scraps and thus have no free time.


>Magicbymccauley has only commented on page 25 of Jim Steinmeyer book and It will be fascinating to see the reaction to the post when mccauley turns to >page 26

OH MY GOD! I JUST READ PAGE 26!!!!!! I HAVE NOW REALIZED THE MEANING OF THE UNIVERSE!

Just kidding. My opinion is exactly the same.

Good call though. I would have gone my whole life without reading page 26 if you hadn't told me to.

*career

I was also critiquing Steinmeyer and other Illusionists for TWO points. People have only complained about ONE of them, that being that I don't think that overly flashy props and overly flashy dancing and music are a good idea.

The other thing I criticized was that Jim claims that close up magicians don't make good illusionists. NO ONE has answered back to me on that one. Does everyone just agree with me that he is wrong on this? Or do people just filter out everything except for my second point.

I would also like to add that when I saw Penn and Teller's show at the Rio in 2008, they didn't use ANY flashy props, and even let people examine their wooden (totally normal looking unfinished) plywood crate at the beginning of the show. They used, (as I recall) scissors, a long length of scarf, a normal looking wooden crate, a normal looking fishbowl, broken beer bottles, and two guns for a bullet catch. They didn't have ANY fancy looking illusions made with gold trim, red laquer, or brushed steel.

LOL......Though I disagree with how you went about making your point on this thread, I can agree with you on that one.