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bigchuck
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Ok, here's a routining question - when routining tricks together like for instance, let's say: spellbound & silver copper extraction, would you finish the one routine and then completely begin the next, for example, from the pocket, or would you 'produce' the other coin within the context of the 'complete' routine? (And if so, do you feel that telegraphs the method behind spellbound?)

I have also wondered about doing coins across and Three-fly - a version of coins across like winged silver seems to inherently hide the method a little better than a strictly sleight of hand variation of three fly. So, in doing both these routines in one LARGER routine, am I making it easier for the spectators to put it all together?

These were just a few thoughts that occurred to me... how has everyone else resolved these issues?
"The computer can't tell you the emotional story. It can give you the exact
mathematical design, but what's missing is the eyebrows. - Frank Zappa"
Jonathan Townsend
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The coins used for spellbound need not be the same as the ones used for the two coin transposition or the silver extraction.

Clean handling and attention management hide the 'method' for coins across in general.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
wsduncan
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I've always felt that using an English Penny and Half dollar for Spellbound SCREAMS "I'm using TWO COINS" to the audience.

I would recommend a routine that changes the coin in some dramatic way without the coins identity changing. Derek Dingle has one such routine in Complete Works. It's called Inflation and involves a penny changing to a larger (dollar or half dollar sized) penny and back to normal size. Finally, it changes to a 3" Jumbo penny.

So obviously I wouldn't produce the English penny for C/S extraction after spellbound. But generally, I like the idea of producing the coins before doing magic with them. That "allows" me to use older Walking Liberty of Franklin halves. If I were to pull the coins out of my pocket I'd feel compelled to use currency that a real person might have in their pockets such as quarters or "golden" dollars.
Ramsay
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Spellbound is an interesting problem. I too feel it screams "extra coin! Extra coin!" the best solution I have found comes from John Ramsay, no multiple changes just one.

Another idea I had was to do the first change - smoothly, fluidly and with the least possible motion; then to change the coin back. It would appear, hopefully, as if the spectator thought the saw the coin change. However it was very misty. It changes, then almost as they notice, it has changed back.

This is something I've never really got down, but it's an idea.

L.
Jonathan Townsend
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The Downs palm/ classic palm / or eg2eg coin switch moves can give you that “I thought I saw...” or “misty” effect you want.

What Ramsay 'spellbound' application are you referencing? -Jon
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Paul Chosse
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Spellbound has multiple problems and so, multiple solutions. A silver-plated penny, or a copper-plated half allows the metal to change without the coin changing, helping to eliminate the two coin solution. Talk lines and multiple changes like a triple change spellbound can eliminate the multiple coin solution, as well. I talk about the hands acting as a foreign currency exchange for out-of-circulation currency. Then change old coins to their present value in new currency. As you go from country to country you change your money to suit the locale. It's all in the presentation.

Best, PSC
"You can't steal a gift..." Dizzy Gillespie
David Neighbors
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I have always dealt with the ? you have more than one coin in spellbound by changing it to say 4 or 5 coins!
With a clean handling! Or changing say, 3 or 4 coins
a.k.a. Wildcoin! They know you can't be holding
out that many coins!


Best David Neighbors
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bigchuck
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Thanks for the insights, its great to be able to bounce ideas off of such creative minds.

That idea of a copper-plated half is something I'm definitely going to have to look into.
"The computer can't tell you the emotional story. It can give you the exact
mathematical design, but what's missing is the eyebrows. - Frank Zappa"
Jonathan Townsend
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Given the colorization of the 20 dollar bill, it might be cute to paint up a coin and ask for opinions about proposed colorized coins.

There are some really nice painted half dollars around and also can try some simpler paint jobs and colors.

It might be worth getting a double-headed coin involved to make the mechanics a bit smoother.

What are your thoughts?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
David Neighbors
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I have seen some colored halves at coin shows! Maybe you could get some of those!

Best David Neighbors
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bigchuck
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I agree that Wild coin is one of my favorites, the only version I really know (from Roth's ECM video) has a kind of lame kicker though in my opinion, so I do it into my pocket as opposed to a cup and leave out that ending, as it seems a little anti-climactic to me.

The multi-colored coin idea is something that's got me intrigued and I'm thinking bill switch color changes (old to new) and spellbound into say red, blue and normal silver half can be fun for a while, at least as long as both the old and new bills are in circulation.

Maybe even end on a jumbo half with red, natural silver and blue stripes?

Hmm, now you have me thinking... Smile
"The computer can't tell you the emotional story. It can give you the exact
mathematical design, but what's missing is the eyebrows. - Frank Zappa"
wsduncan
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I actually have a script for a spellbound routine that uses one of the painted half dollars Jon is talking about. I left it out of my book Tubthumping because I thought the subtext of the script was too "heavy" for most close up magician to pull off.

I like the colorized coins idea Jon. It's topical and clever.

Quote:
On 2003-10-26 22:28, David Neighbors wrote:
They know you can't be holding out that many coins!

I don't follow your reasoning... If they don't know how we do what we do, how is it that they do know what we CAN'T do?

I've found that laymen often think we can do things that I would give my left... shoe to be able to do.
Scott F. Guinn
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Quote:
On 2003-10-26 21:29, pchosse wrote:
Talk lines and multiple changes like a triple change spellbound can eliminate the multiple coin solution, as well. I talk about the hands acting as a foreign currency exchange for out-of-circulation currency. Then change old coins to their present value in new currency. As you go from country to country you change your money to suit the locale. It's all in the presentation.

Best, PSC


"It's all in the presentation..."

Amen, Paul! I do Spellbound all the time and I usually change the coin to another country's currency. People gasp, applaud, and cry out "No WAY!" Hardly the reactions of people who "know" there is an extra coin.

Back to the original question, Paul's answer holds true when routining tricks together, as well.
"Love God, laugh more, spend more time with the ones you love, play with children, do good to those in need, and eat more ice cream. There is more to life than magic tricks." - Scott F. Guinn
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bakerkn
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Quote:
On 2003-10-26 09:16, Ramsay wrote:
...best solution I have found comes from John Ramsay, no multiple changes just one.




Hi Luke,

The only Ramsay version I know of is "The Changling"...which is two simple changes with minimal handling and lots attention direction. Are you referring to a different routine?

I like your idea of dream-like change. If you never look at the coin yourself and never directly refer to the change you may leave them with a very hazy image.

I've played with the idea of ageing a coin… from bright and shiny to old and tarnished. Changes the effect quite considerably an, to my mind, makes it less obvious that there are two coins.

Regards,

Kevin
David Neighbors
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I don't know wsduncan,
I just have had a layman say I must just be switching coins when I was just doing 2 coins! When I do 5 coins (with palm up shows) I have never had them say that! Yeah, hopefully they don't know you are just switching coins, But for me if they do it seems to help! If as I said the handling is clean looking it works for me! Ok, … hope this helps!

Best David Neighbors
The Coinjurer
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Ramsay
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Hey

Yes Kevin, that's the one. I agree lots of misdirection would be needed but I would think in the long run it could be made to look pretty good.

As always I like your thinking. The old coins to shiny is a nice idea... mmmmmm.

How are you by the way? Long time no see.

L.
Jonathan Townsend
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I used to do the old and tarnished to shiny presentation for Wildcoin in college. I had an EMPTY bottle of coin polish to pretend to apply/dip coins into to clean them up. I used a shiny/dull coin. The finale was a barehanded liquid polish vanish which was a nice payoff cause there was none in the bottle to begin with. Smile

I got my coins almost jet black by leaving them in the bottom of a bottle of tarn-ex like clear dipping solution for a week to accumulate oxides.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
KirkG
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I have the ability to silver plate English pennies. I can do one or both sides. It is actual silver so it doesn't look like the chrome ones you can get from dealers. I can also, do half of one face so it looks like the change got interrupted.

Kirk
Jason Bay
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This is somewhat off-topic... but as long as we're talking about doing changes between multiple coins, what about doing a routine where you start with a really old edition of a coin, and progressively change it into newer and newer editions?

For instance, I'm not sure how many editions of coin dollars the USA has printed over the last 100+ years, but I'll bet it's four or five. It might be cool to start with a silver dollar from (say) 1900, and end up with a shiny new Sacagawea. Especially if you had some interesting patter, and could give some trivia about each coin, or anecdotes regarding what was going on in history at the time the coin was printed.

- Jason
Paul Chosse
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Now that, Jason, is a really great idea! Good thinking presentation-wise, and some potentially great, visual magic to boot. The silver Dollar is particularly appropriate because there were so many and they are so different, both in size and in color - remember there is one that is gold(ish)... I'd be calling a coin maker about double-faced silver dollars The Morgan and the Peace and the Eisenhower are all the same size, then there is the Sacagawea to finish - They could be tied to your ancestors, great grandfather, grandfather, father, you - Lucky pieces that each carried throughout his life and passed on to his son. A special coin that changes as it is passed from generation to generation to reflect the time it exists in... Ever evolving with the times as mankind does...
There is a lot to work with here, pay attention you guys!

Best, PSC
"You can't steal a gift..." Dizzy Gillespie
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