The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Shuffled not Stirred » » Favorite Effects with a Red/Black Split Stack? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

Sik_Lescinovid
View Profile
New user
5 Posts

Profile of Sik_Lescinovid
First of all I want to mention that this is my first post, so please be lenient Smile

In this thread I would like to collect good effects that start off with a deck separated into red and black cards, or any setup easily reachable from there. Obviously many known variants of OOTW fit the bill, but I'm having trouble finding other effects which rely on this stack and I'm sure they're out there because I remember seeing them often in litarature; now that I'm actively looking for such effects though I've hit a brick wall. The reasoning behind this thread of course being that it's surprisingly easy to get into position under cover of another effect.

So, what are your favorite effects starting with a deck separated into reds and blacks or a similar position?

EDIT: I should clarify that "easily reachable" for me means anything that doesn't require a Faro and can be done under the spectators nose. But feel free to include anything requiring a Faro as long as it can be done in reasonable time in front of the audience.
Atom3339
View Profile
Inner circle
Spokane, WA
3242 Posts

Profile of Atom3339
Sik, As you are aware, there are tons of OOTW effects. The setup, as you describe, is also effective for other effects making revealments possible. It also simplifies many O&W (Oil and Water) routines. Aldo Colombini has 2 DVDs just on O&W. Harry Lorayne is a fount on handling many, many, MANY(!) routines based on this setup. And be sure to find a copy of the Encyclopedia Of Card Magic as these types of tricks and many others are well described and taught.

I will also caution you to not over-use this setup / principle, especially during one long session as the layman can be extremely smart. And once you're caught.......? Let's just say you may re-think a few things.

Welcome to the Café!
TH

Occupy Your Dream
Dennis Loomis
View Profile
1943 - 2013
2113 Posts

Profile of Dennis Loomis
I'll just say this. You never want the spectators to see the faces of this kind of stack. The good news is that you can do many of the effects (Not OOTW) with a mem-deck. For example, all a spectator to choose a card, forcing one of the top 26 cards. (With that much lee-way it's easy.) Then have him replace the card in the lower half. (Again, an easy task.) Now if you know your mem-deck stack well, a quick look through the deck will allow you to spot the missing card in the top half and find it in the lower half. This will remain true even if you start the trick by dividing the deck into two packets of 26 cards and give each packet to a different spectator to shuffle. It's still quite easy, for experiences mem-deck workers to spot the card that's missing from the top half, and even easier to spot the "extra" card in the bottom half. (As you look through the bottom half, you're bring the stack numbers to mind. There will be only one that is less than 26... that's the selection.

Dennis Loomis
Itinerant Montebank
<BR>http://www.loomismagic.com
Sik_Lescinovid
View Profile
New user
5 Posts

Profile of Sik_Lescinovid
Thank you Atom3339 for the references. I will have to find my copy of EOCM as I haven't read it in a while, good to know that there's some effects in there with this setup!

Dennis, I should have clarified that the pitfalls of the stack are exceedingly clear to me and that the rationale behind using it is simply the fact that it is almost instant to set up in front of people and that it should allow for some miracles assuming the spectators are completely unaware of the stack (as is usually the case). I did experiment already with card locations but none of them seem as impossible as others that use less "massive" methods than a complete red/black split. Also I basically always peek (à la Steven Youell) and so the potential of the stack for a mere card location seems wasted. I hope I'm wrong, but of the top of my head I didn't manage to come up with a card location that seems impossible enough to warrant such a bold setup.

I want to divulge an example of an effect with this setup that I came up with while jazzing at a party one time:

Someone came over and handed me a shuffled deck hoping I'd do something. Admittedly I was somewhat drunk, or shall we say 'confused', and decided to try something Green-ish. I riffled through the deck letting the person say stop and think of the card with me subsequently taking a peek at it. After some chaotic false-shuffling I decided to do the slop shuffle as a cover to separated reds and blacks and put the chosen card in position for a quick Triumph effect. The guy was quite amazed when the whole deck corrected itself with his thought of card being the only one face up. At this point he thought the trick was over, was well amazed and hoped I would go on with some more. Without explaining my actions I suddenly started dealing cards face down in two packets in a way the spectator usually does in an OOTW effect. After setting up the two packets for a Rosetta for the spectator, I explained that my weird dealing was actually a prediction of how he would push the two packets together, a claim being hopefully proven by me supposedly having canceled his shuffling in advance. I knew that most of the pack would end up still being red/black split with a few mistakes in the middle, but in this instance I actually got lucky and the whole thing ended up being perfectly split. It was a miracle, and it killed everyone in sight.
BarryFernelius
View Profile
Inner circle
Still learning, even though I've made
2532 Posts

Profile of BarryFernelius
Even if you don't memorize a stack, there are many less obvious ways to divide a deck into two groups of 26 cards.

For instance, in one half of the deck, you might have:

3C, 7C, 8C, QC, AD, 2D, 6D, 10D, 3S, 4S, 5S, 7S, 8S, 9S, JS, QS, KS, 3H, 4H, 5H, 7H, 8H, 9H, JH, QH, KH

In the other group:

AC, 2C, 4C, 5C, 6C, 9C, 10C, JC, KC, 3D, 4D, 5D, 7D, 8D, 9D, JD, QD, KD, AS, 2S, 6S, 10S, AH, 2H, 6H, 10H

If you shuffle both groups, they'll look fairly random. The first group of 26 cards is all of the cards in the deck whose names spell with either 12 or 13 letters. The second group is all of the cards whose names spell with 10, 11, 14, or 15 letters. (Now, just learn Marlo's Instant Speller, and you can see the pattern almost instantly.)
"To achieve great things, two things are needed: a plan and not quite enough time."

-Leonard Bernstein
Sik_Lescinovid
View Profile
New user
5 Posts

Profile of Sik_Lescinovid
I like the idea Barry! Probably a bit harder to set up in front of people but with some practice and concentration it should work. Maybe the thread topic should be altered to include any stacks and effects that can truly be set up in a matter of one or two short effects. This would still exclude a Tamariz or Aronson stack I think since I haven't heard of any methods to set them up quickly without going through a fairly boring and long routine first.

I should mention that I performed this jazz routine I mentioned a few times now and reactions were even wilder in some cases. I didn't even get lucky anymore, but the mistakes in the middle seemed to add a sense of credibility to the whole thing.
BarryFernelius
View Profile
Inner circle
Still learning, even though I've made
2532 Posts

Profile of BarryFernelius
If you're going to do OOTW or one of its variants, by all means, separate the reds and the blacks. But if you just need to know which card is from which group of 26 cards, try something subtle instead.

If you were to shuffle each of the two groups that I described above and make one group the top 26 cards and another group the bottom 26 cards, you could spread the deck face up, and the pattern would never be seen. You could do several tricks that maintain this pattern. For a killer finish, you could do an impossible John Bannon effect that would leave them gasping. (See Dear Mr Fantasy for details.)
"To achieve great things, two things are needed: a plan and not quite enough time."

-Leonard Bernstein
Sik_Lescinovid
View Profile
New user
5 Posts

Profile of Sik_Lescinovid
My point, Barry, is that when handling the cards properly a red/black split goes unnoticed (even by magicians) and it's as far as I know the easiest to set up when handed a shuffled deck. Now I'm fairly certain that there must be some killer routines starting with this set up by following up with a card separation of sorts. With minimal work under some pretense you could surely separate some or all suits and construct a sort of gambling/card sharp routine. I have to admit I'd be really surprised if no one here has some favorite effect that can be started easily with the red/black split setup (or something similarly simple).

I should clarify that I really do not care about a pattern being visible or not, the way I handle cards this point becomes moot for me. All I care about is having a really quick and surefire way of getting into a stack from a shuffled deck. I'll check the references that Atom gave, I'll post when I find something nice.
JanForster
View Profile
Inner circle
Germany ... when not traveling...
3881 Posts

Profile of JanForster
"Never Blind Nor Silly" by Juan Tamariz is such a lead in routine (see in "Sonata"), a very strong effect, and the audience divides the deck without knowing it. Roberto Giobbi has published the same routine (with credit of course) under the title "TNT" in one of his lighter books; as I own the German books of this series only I can not tell you in which English book it is. Jan
Jan Forster
www.janforster.de
drhowell
View Profile
New user
Cookeville, TN
29 Posts

Profile of drhowell
Check out The Color of Thought in Fulves' More Self-Working Card Tricks. It is a variant of OOTW.

Cliff
Harry Lorayne
View Profile
V.I.P.
New York City
8474 Posts

Profile of Harry Lorayne
Kinda' "right up your alley" is my The Great Divide. Not only the basic "separation" idea, but there's one effect that people have told me is definitely worth the "whole" thing. But...many other good thoughts above. HL.
[email]harrylorayne@earthlink.net[/email]

http://www.harrylorayne.com
http://www.harryloraynemagic.com
Harry Lorayne
View Profile
V.I.P.
New York City
8474 Posts

Profile of Harry Lorayne
And then, of course, there is OUT OF THIS UNIVERSE.
[email]harrylorayne@earthlink.net[/email]

http://www.harrylorayne.com
http://www.harryloraynemagic.com
Atom3339
View Profile
Inner circle
Spokane, WA
3242 Posts

Profile of Atom3339
Over 40 years ago. I was 16. Performing Out Of This Universe. And everything else from Close Up Card Magic. After that, no one would ever play cards with me. Ever. Still love your stuff, Harry!
TH

Occupy Your Dream
Sik_Lescinovid
View Profile
New user
5 Posts

Profile of Sik_Lescinovid
This thread gave me some great ideas. First of all Juan Tamariz's "Neither Blind Nor Silly" was mentioned. I actually knew about the routine (saw it performed by some guy once) but didn't know how it was done or where to find it. Turns out I had a spanish copy of Sonata lying around that I've never read (probably because of the language). Turns out it's a great read and full of good stuff! The routine is killer too, and ends with a red/black split stack. However I was a bit unhappy about the setup, but then an idea hit me... (see las paragraph).

Then Harry mentioned "Out of this Universe", which, although a known classic, I never decided to learn. Finally I got around to studying it and I must say I am very positively surprised. There were many discussions here where people would say they thought it was too drawn out or whatever, but I'd have to say they completely missed the point. This is one of the few OOTW-type effects where the spectator can (in principle) riffle shuffle the deck FOUR times, and additionally do more shuffling by truly random dealing. Moreover an old "issue" with the method, which many OOTW variants posess, is turned into a virtue by making it the basis for a surprising prediction! Definitely not your run of the mill OOTW effect and definitely very magical/entertaining. After only little practice I've performed the effect multiple times, sometimes letting the spectator handle the cards from start to finish (that's right: cards at all times in spectators hands, doing alltogether FOUR riffle shuffles and a bunch of shuffling by random dealing), and sometimes doing ALL the dealing and shuffling myself openly. My point: both variants were extremely entertaining. You heard that right, even if the magician handles the cards at all times it's still a pretty *** amazing display of card control. Never mind of course what the spectators must think when they've been handling the cards all the time...

So where does this leave me in regards to an easily reachable red/black stack? Well, I know have a killer routine consisting of "Aunt Mary's Terrible Secret", "Neither Blind Nor Silly" and "Out of this Universe", in that order. Those who know the effects will see how the first one sets me up for the second effect, and how the second one sets me up for Harry's marvelous creation. Starting with a shuffled deck in use, I now have a wonderful lead-in routine to a great OOTW-type effect, the lead-in itself consisting of two killer effects and one of which uses both the Miraskill principle and Gilbreath principle. I'm a big fan of clever mathematical principles in card magic so this is somewhat of a dream come true for me. Thank you Jan for turning me onto Tamariz's awesome effect, and thank you Harry for reminding me that it was high time I should take a proper look at OOTU. I can absolutely not understand how someone can dislike OOTU.
Herr Brian Tabor
View Profile
Special user
West Virginia
726 Posts

Profile of Herr Brian Tabor
Lennart Green- Green Magic vol 1 has a rather large, fun routine using this red/black stack principle. It ends with the spectator dealing cards randomly and finding they have separated.
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Shuffled not Stirred » » Favorite Effects with a Red/Black Split Stack? (0 Likes)
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2021 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.29 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL