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ed rhodes Inner circle Rhode Island 2885 Posts |
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On 2012-09-30 03:45, stoneunhinged wrote: Sci-fi or comic book fans are just the same. Don't get a group of Star Trek and Star Wars fans together.
"...and if you're too afraid of goin' astray, you won't go anywhere." - Granny Weatherwax
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George Ledo Magic Café Columnist SF Bay Area 3042 Posts |
It isn't only magicians. Sorry.
I go thru this all the time in my work. Theatre designers, builders, painters, and so on are not all trained the same. Some come from colleges where the professors had professional experience and knew what they were talking about, and some come from... let's just say other colleges. But for some reason they all think they're right "because that's what they taught me in college," and you end up with absolutely ridiculous arguments. It's not just a matter of "there are different ways to do this" (which there are) - very often it's "I'm right and you're a jerk." Been seeing it for years and years.
That's our departed buddy Burt, aka The Great Burtini, doing his famous Cups and Mice routine
www.georgefledo.net Latest column: "Sorry about the photos in my posts here" |
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Mary Mowder Inner circle Sacramento / Elk Grove, CA 3659 Posts |
Magicbymccauley's original post seemed to paint all Magicians as contentious jerks and seemed to escalate the level of violence as well.
We have our differences and occasionally push comes to shove verbally but not as often as his post would make it seem. I've noticed that some people are more apt to get involved in these arguments than others. I do agree that I have just walked away from a discussion because of some of the participants or the tone of the discussion so I agree with his major point. If we really want a free exchange of ideas we need a safe environment in which to conduct the conversation. w_s_anderson (and others) is right about the way people say things being a problem. It is possible to have a different way of doing things without any disagreement. It is also possible to disagree without rancor, condescension or name calling. That said, nobody better step to me! -Mary Mowder |
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Dougini Inner circle The Beautiful State Of Maine 7130 Posts |
Sometimes, it's not what is said, but how it is said. If I told a girl that she has a face that makes time stand still, she smiles and thanks me. If I say she has a face that would stop a clock...well, not so good.
Doug |
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts |
There was a forum for discussion of what should be included in the DSM-V (manual for psychology/psychiatry diagnosis), it got so nasty in there they had to shut it down. People with multiple PhD's cussing each other out over dysphoric disorders. Good times.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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tomsk192 Inner circle 3894 Posts |
I'm sure one of the above posts showed blatant, erm, disrespect to, err, me. And my dog. And, um, you're all always wrong about everything.
Except when I agree. And I live my life by that rule. (Except Mary Mowder, she is the most incendiary provocateur of all. I ALWAYS disagree with her. Even when I agree.) |
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Mr. Mystoffelees Inner circle I haven't changed anyone's opinion in 3623 Posts |
GRASS
by: Carl Sandburg (1878-1967) PILE the bodies high at Austerlitz and Waterloo, Shovel them under and let me work-- I am the grass; I cover all. And pile them high at Gettysburg And pile them high at Ypres and Verdun. Shovel them under and let me work. Two years, ten years, and passengers ask the conductor: What place is this? Where are we now? I am the grass. Let me work.
Also known, when doing rope magic, as "Cordini"
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EsnRedshirt Special user Newark, CA 895 Posts |
Magicians are a group that tends to have egos. And sometimes, people with egos don't take criticism easily.
Self-proclaimed Jack-of-all-trades and google expert*.
* = Take any advice from this person with a grain of salt. |
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S2000magician Inner circle Yorba Linda, CA 3465 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-09-30 18:39, tomsk192 wrote: Mary is, as you so rightly observed, a she; thus, she cannot be a provocateur. A provocateuse, perhaps, but not a provocateur. Carry on. |
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Mary Mowder Inner circle Sacramento / Elk Grove, CA 3659 Posts |
Tomsk192,
Revenge is a dish best served cold. You step to me, I'll step to you. (It used to be a compliment when people called me provocative. LOL) -Mary |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-09-30 13:00, S2000magician wrote: A pseudo-paradox!
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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Mr. Mystoffelees Inner circle I haven't changed anyone's opinion in 3623 Posts |
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On 2012-10-01 00:41, Mary Mowder wrote: Or, did they mean provericative? Jim
Also known, when doing rope magic, as "Cordini"
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Mr. Mystoffelees Inner circle I haven't changed anyone's opinion in 3623 Posts |
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Also known, when doing rope magic, as "Cordini"
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Peter McMillan Elite user St. George, Utah 497 Posts |
Grass does its work well at Phnom penh, Huế, My Lai, Khe Sanh.........not so well on station, South China Sea.
There, the blue waves do the work. Still the memories linger......... 1959 - 1975 "Lest We Forget", Fair Winds & Following Seas.
Spiritus Dictum Artifacts ~ Tools of the Craft for Serious Workers http://petemcmillan.wixsite.com/sd-artifacts/artifacts
~ www.SantaPeteUtah.com |
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General_Magician Special user United States 707 Posts |
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On 2012-09-24 09:36, magicbymccauley wrote: Personally, I am a firm believer in modesty as an artist. Now, I am not saying be over-indulgent in self humility, simply be modest with some humility (but not too much). Most magicians (though I don't know many muscians) merely have way oversized egos and take things way too personally. I think that's unhealthy to have thin skin and an inflated attitude like that as it shows a lack of maturity and insecurity. But that's just me. There is no room for arrogance or a big ego that generates an inflated attitude in magic (though most magicians are arrogant and have big egos) as it simply prevents you from living up to your true potential as an artist in my opinion. But I agree with your assessment. You are correct in your view that most magicians take things way too personally and have thin skin.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts |
I suspect that many go into performance arts specifically because they seek validation and attention.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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General_Magician Special user United States 707 Posts |
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On 2012-10-01 23:55, critter wrote: Misdirection is really redirection from you, the magician, onto the audience who you are entertaining. The magician is not where the attention should be, it should be on the audience; otherwise, the magician will find it very difficult create any sort of magical illusions and astonishment in the minds of the audience if the attention is always on him. The performance of magic is not about getting attention for yourself or validation, it's about taking attention away from you and putting it back on the audience and giving something to the audience that they will be amazed, astonished, entertained and inspired by. The performance of magic is not about fame for the magician or bringing attention onto the magician. The magician putting too much attention on himself harms his ability to perform magic and create astonishment in the minds of the audience. Personally, I think it's better if the magician is well practiced in his craft AND not well known or famous. This would work to his advantage in creating astonishment in the minds of the audience he performs the art of magic for. As fame, can bring atttention back onto the magician which having too much attention on the magician makes it much more difficult for him to create astonishment in the minds of the audience.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts |
Yeah I'm not saying it's a good or bad motivation, just that it seems to be a common one.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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General_Magician Special user United States 707 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-10-02 00:25, critter wrote: I think it's a bad motivation for performing magic (to do it for attention or validation). I just like amazing, entertaining and bringing a smile to peoples faces. Plus some tricks are really cool and mind blowing and it's like WOW, that was so amazing, I would love to learn how to do that. Then, the hard work begins and it's very very tough to learn sometimes. It shouldn't be about attention and validation so much but more about how the art of magic brings you joy. That should be the primary reason to perform the art of magic: because it brings you joy and happiness and thus also brings joy and happiness to those you perform for, not attention and validation. Learning the performance of the art of magic has also taught me many life lessons and I think some wisdom. Plus, the art of magic has helped me to become better in other fields as well (such as applying Sun Tzu's teachings in the art of magic as well as well as applying Sun Tzu's principles when I was an enlisted man in the National Guard). "All warfare is based upon deception" the same could be said for the art of magic, "All magic is based upon deception."
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown
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stoneunhinged Inner circle 3067 Posts |
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On 2012-10-02 06:29, General_Magician wrote: I think that what really underlies this thread is that magicians tend--and more so than in other art forms--to insist on defining what magic should or shouldn't be about. I sincerely and strenuously object that you are telling any of us what magic "shouldn't be about". Who made you the Magic Sheriff? |
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