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Magician Shaun Special user Huntington BCH, CA 924 Posts |
I have heard that it is harder to stop crowds in America than Europe. Is it really easier in Europe? Are there parts of America that are almost as good as Europe? What is the best town to street perform in America?
Does anyone know why Atlanta is considered a tough town? I have been working festivals and the people just flocked to me. Last Saturday I worked the streets and the traffic flow was low, the people were hard to stop, and it just seemed so hard and like so much work compared to the festivals. This leads to the next question. Are festivals easier in Europe than in America? Are they about the same because it's a festival? Does the European opinion of the street performer make festivals in Europe the best venues in the world? |
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The Great Zoobini Elite user Boulder, Colorado 443 Posts |
Ugh
Meet you in Busker Alley
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Zombie Magic Inner circle I went out for a beer and now have 8733 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-09-25 21:41, The Great Zoobini wrote: That's a very old stock line, but it still works. People freeze when it's uttered. |
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Stperformer Loyal user 291 Posts |
The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.
I can attest that Europe has it's share of compexities and hi/lo's also. And yes, festivals are a charm just about anywhere. |
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Magician Shaun Special user Huntington BCH, CA 924 Posts |
I have just heard it mentioned over and over by a lot of buskers that America is generally harder than most European countries. I am wondering why people feel that way.
Are the attitudes of European's different? I know sometimes when I am working on stopping the first people I often get the same eye contact avoidance I give beggars. I think the typical American's first reaction is to put us instantly in the "poor/ homeless" category. We then are required to prove that we are not before they are interested. Is Europe different? |
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Ekuth Inner circle Floating above my 1538 Posts |
You pretty much answered your own question, Shaun.
This is one of those areas where we Americans think we're 'cultured' but really, we're a bunch of officious, stuck up prigs. I blame our Puritan ancestry. While that sounds humourous, there is truth in it. Europe is much more open to what we would consider avant garde/street entertainment; there is a long history of it in the culture there whereas we haven't really matured as a society to the point where we can distinguish between 'begging' and 'street art'. There are many more negative connotations here in the US than in Europe as a whole; we tend to dismiss anything that isn't shrink-wrapped, commercialized and put on the TV/Movies for mass consumption. For example, the last time I was on pitch (last weekend) I was driven off by the oh-so-friendly owners of the Italian restaurant that I had set up AROUND THE CORNER from, in an unused doorway. They claimed I was blocking traffic flow, had been warned before, la, la, la... all of which were pure lies. I protested my 1st Amendment rights, stated that I was on public, not private property (splitting hairs- one foot either way) and stood up for myself. Now keep in mind (as you can see in my avatar) I dress FAR better than your average person on the street, performer or pedestrian. I am neat, clean and ALWAYS leave my pitch cleaner than I found it. I give shout-outs to whatever business I'm pitching in front of or to the side of. I draw people. THIS b*tch treated me like I was something scraped off the bottom of her 9" stilleto heels. Even had to call her 'boyfriend/partner' over to back her up when I stood my ground. HE got nasty and threatened to call the cops, AFTER I had already decided that this battle wasn't worth it and had said I would move. He continued to rant and argue with me until I finally told him: "Look, we're never going to agree on this, I've said I'm leaving and the longer you stand here blabbing, the longer it's going to take me to leave... so GO AWAY and I will too." That shut him up (or perhaps it was the applause that the crowd gave me after watching this little interchange) and I tipped my hat to him, the crowd, and promptly moved my pitch approximately 10 feet further and proceeded with my set, ignoring the glares of hatred the pair of them kept shooting in my direction. Yes, I tend to kill with kindness when confronted. Nothing ticks people off like being nice to them when they're angry. But, the upshot of this interlude was that I maintained my dignity. I honestly don't think they knew quite how to react to me, other than the knee-jerk response of "I'm gonna call the cops!". Should have told him to go ahead. Anyway... When I first started busking, and to this day, I still regularly have to educate my audiences on just what live entertainment is, and how to enjoy it. Most folks are completely clueless as to what is proper audience behavior or even simply how to stop for those precious 5 minutes. Odd how we'll wait 20 minutes in line for a Starbucks but can't be bothered to spend a few measly minutes watching a street performer... priorities, I guess. Which brings us back to the maturity of society as a whole; Europe has much more history of our type of art (sad that the Gypsy people never really made it big in the US) and is generally far more accepting of alternate forms of entertainment/spontenaity(sp?). Not to say that there aren't, as Stperformer noted, troubles over there as well. So, I guess it's a mixed bag.
"All you need is in Fitzkee."
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j100taylor Inner circle 1198 Posts |
Great post Ekuth. I lived in London for 7 years before moving back to the states and agree with your comments on our "culture".
Lakewood, Ohio
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Zombie Magic Inner circle I went out for a beer and now have 8733 Posts |
Ekuth, that was an AMAZING story you shared with us. You showed your true colors and class and those creeps showed theirs. They SHOULD have seen the gold that was in their backyard and invited you closer to the restaurant ( or inside ). Their loss.
The U.S. doesn't understand street performing. They see someone playing a sax or guitar that has their case opened and they can see money in it, they may drop money in even, if they aren't staying to listen. But they really think they are homeless and are begging. I think I heard Gazzo do his hat line saying he's not homeless, he chooses to be there performing, etc. I guess it's a constant educating of each crowd. Maybe in 200 more years, it will become accepted. |
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Dr_J_Ayala Inner circle In search of Vlad Dracul and his 2169 Posts |
@Ekuth: The gypsy communities HAVE caught on in the U.S. - and by that I mean ""gypsy"" communities. The problem is, the typical gypsies that everyone is exposed to give the entire lot, the world over, a bad name (the ones whose ancestors are rolling in their graves). The same has happened in Europe.
Great story to share hermano! As Zombie said, they had a potential to increase their traffic flow but instead chose a path which keeps it where it is AND made them look like idiots. If I ever saw a restaurant owner do something like that to anyone, for whatever reason(s), I would absolutely avoid their restaurant(s). |
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Ekuth Inner circle Floating above my 1538 Posts |
Thank you for your kind comments, gentlemen.
Every once in a while I say something half-way wise... I figure I might actually sound like I know what I'm talking about by the time I'm dead. @Dr J: Agreed, and to clarify, I was referring to the original Romani people- not the 'bohemian' gypsy movement.
"All you need is in Fitzkee."
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Dr_J_Ayala Inner circle In search of Vlad Dracul and his 2169 Posts |
I might also add that I put double quotes around the word "gypsy" because that too was referring to the 'Bohemian' gypsies. Good point!
On the topic of this thread, I just saw a perfect example of it this afternoon walking through a business district in a neighboring city. A restaurant was trying to give a guitar player (he was playing an acoustic guitar without any electronic amplification) the boot off the sidewalk that merely passed in front of his establishment. This guy was playing 5 feet to the side of the actual restaurant and darn near on the curb - well away from any buildings - and he was bringing in pretty good money! The owner started an altercation and after the player stated his right to be on the public sidewalk, the restauranteur called the police, who eventually showed up and actually sided with the guitar player! In short, he was respectful, he calmly explained to the officer what had happened and he also pointed out that owners of other businesses were not complaining and some had even put cash into his till. Good for him! |
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tom hughes Loyal user 225 Posts |
Why is Atlanta a tough town?
1) it's hot... in the summer almost unbearably so... thus people are usually sprinting from their air conditioned cars to an air conditioned building; noone wants to stop and watch a street show under those conditions thus 2) low foot traffic... see above 3) lack of pitches/ other buskers; if busking isn't part of the culture, but begging is, then you'll be seen as a beggar. Is Europe easier than the US? Not at all, that's nonsense. I've busked in both the US and the UK ( and France, once) and although there is a more accepting "culture" of busking in the UK it has it's own difficulties; the weather, more drunks etc... Gazzo told me that in his town ( Bath) the "golden hour" for busking was between 11am and 1pm on a Saturday... and that's it. Where I busk in the US I get cool summer evenings from 6- 10pm and plenty of foot traffic....it's not easier, just different. tom
http://www.ashevillemagic.com
http://www.themagictomshow.com magician/magic show in asheville w.n.c. |
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Devious Inner circle 2120 Posts |
@Tom Hughes,
This is a bit off topic, but I really like your website. The text is easy to read, great graphics, and easy to navigate style. Hats off to whomever put it together! |
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tom hughes Loyal user 225 Posts |
Awwww! Thanks... I'm pretty pleased with it, it needs an "upcoming shows" page I think but it's working quite well.
Oh... and back to your scheduled discussion...
http://www.ashevillemagic.com
http://www.themagictomshow.com magician/magic show in asheville w.n.c. |
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vernon Special user Scotland 559 Posts |
@Ekuth,
Like the cut of your jib, the thought to be kind when they're angry is a real boon. They don't have anything to bounce their anger off, and you come out way on top. To move or not to move, that is the question, whether it is nobler to suffer the slings and arrows of idiots who throw, or by moving. End them. Paraphrase from some bloke called Shakespeare... Or was it Bacon... Hmmmn. Re America and Europe, I found them both easy and hard in equal measure. And yes... Festivals are way different from the streets... |
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djurmann Inner circle thinks time to practice and stop writing 1481 Posts |
In England Americans have a reputation of being an easy audience....very enthusiastic. Of course when we meet you guys you tend to be on holiday and up for a good time so there is inherent bias in the sample. That said we tend to like street performers, shame if it's not like that in the US.
Gypsy's have a bad rep all over and all get bunched in the same bag. Even the Rom are not above a bit of bias...."It's the Irish travellers giving us all a bad name". I don't know who has the right of it. Good and bad in every community I guess. Danny |
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Magician Shaun Special user Huntington BCH, CA 924 Posts |
I have often said that the intent of the people coming to the area that you are working will make the biggest impact on how hard it is to stop em, and how much they pay. They pay, almost always, but how much do they think you are worth. It will vary strongly based on the intent and the area. If they paid to get in, so much the better. As far as area, retail shopping district with a lot of shops and bars and restaurants where people walk around and buy stuff is a great place. You can work some real nice trickle shows here and even big circles if the traffic is right, because they came to spend money and walk around. If they they don't come for anything outside and you are outside, then they didn't come for you and they are going to be harder. Not sure if that makes sense, it is difficult to articulate.
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Magician Shaun Special user Huntington BCH, CA 924 Posts |
I have just heard it mentioned over and over by a lot of buskers that America is generally harder than most European countries. I am wondering why people feel that way.
Are the attitudes of European's different? I know sometimes when I am working on stopping the first people I often get the same eye contact avoidance I give beggars. I think the typical American's first reaction is to put us instantly in the "poor/ homeless" category. We then are required to prove that we are not before they are interested. Is Europe different? |
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bwarren3 Special user 518 Posts |
This has been a great subject and thread and nobody slung any mud for any reason, so refreshing for a change.
I’ve only busked here in the states so I can’t speak for Europe but back to your original questions, festivals are easy to work because people come there to be entertained so they will stop on a dime to see what you are offering. So getting them to stop is really not even a challenge, I usually go for the kids because then the parents will stop to see what their kid is so interested in then that usually ends up getting the parents involved because they think they can figure it out, sometimes I end up getting Mom or Dad to come over to my table and help their son or daughter. Makes for nice hats.. I think Atlanta is tough because it really depends on where you set up your table, keep in mind Atlanta has a large unemployment population and then they also have a very nice middle class not real rich but comfortable. In my area of Virginia, there are cities that really still have a no busking law like Va Beach but they also have a great summer show called beach street where they pay the performers to perform, but you can’t pass the hat, you would definitely make more money busking and passing the hat because summer in Va B is the height of tourist season and sometimes you can’t find a parking space for several miles. So we have this one guy that has set himself up as the Entertainment head guy for this event then he milks it so he gets paid whether he works it or not, he rents rooms out for traveling performers then charges them not only rent but a percentage o what they are getting paid. This guy appeared from nowhere. So now he has spread to other cities trying to set himself up as the only way to get to work these cities through him. I ignore him and go to my usual spots and just perform like I usually do. Maybe he has really good marketing which he does but with over 31 years experience I’m really not concerned with him. Anyway back to your questions.......Ekuth posted some great info here. have you seen Kozmo’s tales from the streets DVD, great stuff and his stuff really works great. Koz gave me some great advice several times when he came to lecture, one was do the same show just shorten the times so that you do more shows just less times, my hats increased beyond my expectations. Everything you could possible ask or even think to ask is on those DVD’s, then there is always Gazzo’s DVDs. His live performances is always a learning experience, not so much his lectures but when he is performing he is in his true element and it shows. I look at it like this, these guys just made my job a whole lot easier by putting everything on great DVD’s complete with all of the info & background questions you were already thinking about asking. All of the info is there just watch take notes then go apply it, like the Nike commercials say, “Just do it”!!!!!! Didn’t mean to write a novel just hoping this helps you to another street performer’s opinion. Good luck Bill |
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ringmaster Inner circle Memphis, Down in Dixie 1974 Posts |
And to mention another of your questions, people go to festivals expecting to be entertained and to pay for the privalage. Americans don't expect entertainers to be on their sidewalks. Robert Block called it "the clown at midnight effect".
Oh yea, people in Atlant are really stupid.
One of the last living 10-in-one performers. I wanted to be in show business the worst way, and that was it.
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