|
|
Go to page [Previous] 1~2 | ||||||||||
Richard Osterlind V.I.P. 2213 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-10-26 14:42, Montana76 wrote: Montana, No offense meant here, but you are thinking like a magician. When an audience views this type of act they are not trying to figure out how it is done, they are each wanting the mentalist to answer their own personal question. It also is imperative the mentalist acts the part of the mind-reader to the hilt. When you are the performer, you must really believe you are truly getting your information from some "outside" source. That is why, in my previous post, I mentioned how learning mentalism is different than magic because it is not a progression. Even the simplest method can become an incredible event if it is presented correctly. Richard |
|||||||||
garett Regular user 142 Posts |
I think I finally understand what some people mean when they differentiate between "mentalism" and "mental magic."
With mental magic you are placing yourself in the position of entertaining intelligent and skeptical audiences, recognizing that there is no need to make them think there could be any chance at all that what you are doing is "really psychic" in order to entertain AND blow them away with charisma, showmanship and diabolically deceptive methods. With all due respect, many seem to define "mentalism" as insisting on an ambiguity where the audience is not at all certain if they are watching tricks or a demonstration of something genuine. Some people, myself included, are uncomfortable with that. And to those people I strongly advise that if you think a method is too transparent to fool an intelligent and skeptical audience who might be trying to figure out how you do what you do, and you want to win them over and appeal to their intelligence by "being honest about your dishonesty", then all you need to do is put the same effort a magician puts into producing the same effect. We can always do better. Please don't interpret that as me knocking Corinda. Everyone needs to learn the basics and the fundamentals and I still refer to 13 Steps all the time, but I rarely, if ever, use the methods exactly as described. It's more of a muse and reference than a "how to" guide. For those who truly believe that a mentalist needs to strongly separate and distinguish themselves from magicians in order to successfully command an audience and blow them away, then head over to amazon.co.uk and search for the "Derren Brown Enigma" DVD, look at the picture of the cover and read the very first line of text on the DVD packaging: "A Terrific MAGICIAN." I think we can all learn something from the guy who made mentalism cool again. I was born after the 70s so I can't compare his success to Kreskin's. But since Derren rarely performs "magic tricks" and is pretty much straight up mentalism, if he's calling himself a magician and enjoying his level of success, then that completely deubnks this age old MYTH that mentalists need to create the impression that they "might be real." Just my $0.02. |
|||||||||
Richard Osterlind V.I.P. 2213 Posts |
Garett,
You are entitled to your opinion and the right to perform as you want. My feelings are different. Frankly, I believe, as T. A. Waters believed, when people come to a show they know it is a SHOW. I always do my best to present my mentalism as something VERY REAL. Richard |
|||||||||
DekEl Inner circle Creates MindTricks. Has exactly: 1172 Posts |
Garret, no. The "mentalists" who want to cross that path simply call themselves psychic. Wonder and more profound feelings then "oh the rabbit's gone, where did it go?" are what I and some other of us try to create. Just because we don't want to play it off as a minor trick among dozens of magic tricks doesn't mean that we want people to think we're real.
We refer to them as effects rather then tricks because our focus isn't on tricking or fooling the audience as a magician's is, but to have an effect on them. Mental magic is simply someone performing a mental effect as a trick, generally among other tricks.
You can purchase my works at: http://www.GetMindTricks.com
|
|||||||||
Richard Osterlind V.I.P. 2213 Posts |
Unfortunate, yes, that is where magic is. It wasn't always there, but is now.
Look, you don't need to worry about what you claim if you don't claim anything. Just do your mentalism as well as you can and let it go like that. Over half the population believes in ESP, including me. Many of those who think that is so evil (and just who pronounced them experts on the subject?) have no problem making public fun of people's deeply held religious convictions and beliefs. Who does more damage? Again, it is theater. Just do your best. |
|||||||||
Philemon Vanderbeck Inner circle Seattle, WA 4694 Posts |
Some of us define a "magician" as one who does "magic" (not necessarily tricks), and in fact, many laypeople have no problem as seeing a performer as a combination of both trickster and the genuine article. I remember fondly the time an audience member wrote me a thank-you email saying how she loved the show, especially the part where I actually read her mind. Did I write back to her and assure her that even that was just a trick? No... I let her keep that priceless moment when anything was possible.
Professor Philemon Vanderbeck
That Creepy Magician "I use my sixth sense to create the illusion of possessing the other five." |
|||||||||
Julian92 New user Toronto, Ontario 17 Posts |
It's amazing how a topic goes from a great discussion to an argument.
In the end, magic and mentalism is never 100% as it seems. Therefore you will always get discrepancies as to how to fulfill that 100%. Rich Ferguson's "This is Mentalism" is a great DVD to start. A lot of valuable insight and some tricks that leave you baffled even after he explains them. R&L - Julian |
|||||||||
barts185 Inner circle Can you believe I've been wrong on 1355 Posts |
Richard's comment about people believing in ESP (and I'll add paranormal things in general) seems to me to be true.
People WANT to believe in SOMETHING and with religion failing them, are grasping at other things, and WANT to believe that paranormal things are real. I don't think people are watching shows because they want to be entertained. They are watching them because they WANT them to be real and want to see someone with a gift exercise that gift. As someone who is new to the magic and mentalism fields, here are my personal experiences: When I have done "magic tricks" for people (friends / acquaintances), they know it's a trick, and want to know the secret. When I perform a mental effect (or even a magic trick under the guise of a mental effect), these same people, WHO HAVE KNOWN ME FOR YEARS AND WHOM I THOUGHT WOULD REALIZE THAT I DON'T HAVE ANY SPECIAL POWERS, have at times had VERY strong reactions. So far, I have refused to reveal how I did what I did (and it wasn’t anything elaborate), but I've already been asked, HOW DID YOU KNOW WHAT I WAS THINKING? One person, weeks later, when I asked if I could show them something else, said "I would prefer you didn't - I don't think I could handle it. I still don't know how you predicted what was about to happen last time and still get freaked out when I think about it." Oversimplification, but: Pick a card, any card - your card is ... - magic trick. I had a dream last night where I saw you pick a card out of this deck, so when I woke up I wrote down what card I saw on a piece of paper and put that piece of paper in this envelope, which I want you to hold. Would you please choose a card out of this deck and we can see if my dream predicted what would happen here today? … Okay, you can open the envelope and see if my dream accurately predicted what was going to happen … - mentalism. Richard – you say that you believe in ESP. And if you don’t want to answer this, I’ll understand, and hopefully you will take me at my word when I say that I am being sincere and not sarcastic when I ask that in your career, have you dealt with people whom you believe to actually have the ability to read people’s minds, predict future events, etc. ? Bart |
|||||||||
Dougini Inner circle The Beautiful State Of Maine 7130 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-09-28 15:22, Mike Ince wrote: You got that right, Mike! I have performed L*n@ three times now. Each time, the spec/sitter was spooked. Shocked beyond belief at what they had just witnessed! My two sisters, for example. One is extremely religious. She is not speaking to me at this time. My performance bothered her. Her husband (80+ yrs old) thinks I am possessed! LOL! He said there is NO way I could have had that knowledge otherwise! My other sister called me and lectured me about "dabbling in the occult"! She said she had NO idea I had that ability! Her husband was thoroughly entertained, though. He was the only one happy with the show. He loved it! The rest...bothered...scared. Four out of four! I've never done Mentalism before. I just did the one book, 1935 at my sister's. I did 1936 for some friends at my friend's house. The sitter was a 20-something girl, who got up and left, very upset that I could know her thoughts! My friend did not appreciate that fact that she left, upset. I had to explain, it's all entertainment, that there is nothing paranormal. He still is talking about "sage" burning in his house, to be safe. Sheesh, I just did 1936, nothing more! Maybe I'm too new to Mentalism. I've done magic for forty years, and nothing, I mean NOTHING like this has happened! I don't want people upset. I do like the spooky and bizarre! When I think they might think me genuine, I...I...I dunno. That kinda bugs me. Is that bad? I want to entertain, and blow them away, but I don't want them to hate me, or think I'm possessed! I'm a pretty good actor, so maybe that needs to be altered a bit. As Mr. Osterlind said, I want them to take with them the magic of "...it MAY be possible"! It's fun to think I can scare the daylights out of people, but how far do I want that to go? Maybe I'd better get a book or two on Mentalism. That way, at least I can do it right. These last three performances, no one wants to see any more! Forget Hallowe'en. There is no one left I know! I'm not giving up. I still have 1934 to get down, and then Pe@rly G@tes gets added as well. Yikes. I might just get burned at the stake! Doug |
|||||||||
David Thiel Inner circle Western Canada...where all that oil is 4005 Posts |
A couple of unassociated thoughts. I think performers need a keen love for mentalism. It has to be something that grips you hard, something you are committed to -- because it's a discipline that is going to demand a lot of attention to do properly. When a magician performs, it IS possible to commit half-way -- to allow the props and pre-worked patter to perform for you. I'm not saying it's right, but you CAN present the same effect the same way -- essentially on auto-pilot. I know this because I've done it.
That simply won't wash in mentalism. You need to be completely present every minute of every show. The variables in mentalism are vast while, in magic -- they're much more controllable. A mentalist doesn't have props to hide behind...often it's just you...and what you say that makes or breaks the show. So fall in love with mentalism. Then study it. Get DVDs. Study every aspect of the presentations. Spend a day watching good mentalists perform: Cassidy, Osterlind, Banachek, Brown, Salem. You're not watching so you can copy them...you're watching to get a sense of how they approach presenting mentalism. Try not to watch the explanations on the DVD's. Save that for later. For the moment, just experience mentalism performances with a fresh mind. Watch what they do well...watch the nuances of what they do (where they pause...how they handle "things" in their hands -- how they handle volunteers.) Great mentalism, I think, is hidden in the nuance. You don't say anything about your past experience as a performer...but at the very least, consult Bob Cassidy's fine list of recommended readings, read Ken W's Maximum Entertainment and get your hands on Richard Osterlind's DVD treatment of the 13 Steps. Personally, I found great information in the Big Three Books: Annemann's Practical Mental Effects, Corinda's 13 Steps and Cassidy's Fundamentals. Read the books in the same way you watch DVD's...because there is a wonderful sense of true mentalism here. There's a rhythm to the effects and philosophies they present. Once you can "hear" it -- you'll find your performer's heart transformed. I don't think there's any going back once that happens. Good luck and welcome to the forum. David
Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Except bears. Bears will kill you.
My books are here: www.magicpendulums.com www.MidnightMagicAndMentalism.com |
|||||||||
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Getting into mentalism - need tips (0 Likes) | ||||||||||
Go to page [Previous] 1~2 |
[ Top of Page ] |
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2024 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved. This page was created in 0.06 seconds requiring 5 database queries. |
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic. > Privacy Statement < |