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tomsk192 Inner circle 3894 Posts |
I wouldn't bother mate, to be honest.
In terms of the OP: men who went into tunnels, occupied by enemy soldiers, armed only with a knife and pistol, were very brave men. |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-10-19 17:08, spatlind wrote: Atrocity? You must be talking about blocking Fifty (sic) Avenue, or something that happened before Hitler.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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Woland Special user 680 Posts |
Actually, Orwell's misapprehension was to assume that the imposition of a radically totalitarian regime would require the brutal means he described in 1984. Huxley was closer to the mark, at least in today's Western democracies, in Brave New World. When people learn that it is better not to be free, and that all of their physical needs can be supplied by the state, there is little need for brutality. By the way, there is a man in prison in Britain today for wearing a t-shirt with a slogan deemed offensive.
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-10-19 17:08, spatlind wrote: I think if you trace the sub-thread, you'll see that the question is what some people from some countries believe that patriotism is, rather than what it actually is. As Tony says, "Nobody has a problem with patriotism.". The statement about America was not about patriotism per see, but about "A class of Americans [who] believe that patriotism means you are always right and the other guy is always wrong.". Similarly, then, we should consider other countries in light of what some of their citizens construe patriotism to entail - including, for instance, the use of rifles and bombs.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-10-19 18:03, TonyB2009 wrote: How would you have phrased it if you'd been going for snide?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-10-19 17:16, spatlind wrote: I suspect that the gray area was, after the tunnel rats had been called brave, when Landmark suggested that some people might redefine the word brave. That could be construed as suggesting that they weren't brave (though I didn't take it that way).
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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spatlind Special user still moving 863 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-10-19 18:47, LobowolfXXX wrote: Sorry, you lost me. I thought I said specifics. You mentioned glaringly violent expressions of patriotism, and I was wondering which ones, that's all.
Actions lie louder than words - Carolyn Wells
I believe in God, only I spell it Nature - Frank Lloyd Wright. |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
I was wondering which atrocities; that's all.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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Woland Special user 680 Posts |
Western civilization, and with it the notion of free and responsible individuals, is dying from what Geoffrey Blainey called "the black armband school of history."
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spatlind Special user still moving 863 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-10-19 18:54, LobowolfXXX wrote: Somehow 3 of your posts, Lobo, got in between my last one and the one I was responding to. In relation to the above, you are correct, there are some Irish citizens who consider the use of rifles and bombs to be a legitimate expression of patriotism. Thankfully they are very small in number, more so than ever before, and as always, the vast majority consider them to be what they are; mindless thugs, terrorists and a disgrace to the Irish people and their forebears who fought for the independence of their country. Having said that, that is not what we are talking about. We are talking about the faux patriotism that is shown by people who wrap themselves in the colour of their nation and speak as though they are holier than thou, and that everything done in the name of advancing an ideology and then cloaked as "patriotism" is somehow righteous. And I, for one, think that is at best naive, and more likely, stupid. And people who behave blindly as such deserve to be called on it. As I have done with over zealous Irish men and women abroad, usually from the Republic, who have no concept of what it was like to live through the Troubles and have no right to express some of the ill informed opinions that they might do. Deep down I believe that the vast majority of Irish people living in the 26 counties would like, as an ideal, to see a United Ireland. But we are not willing to see any person suffer at the hand of terrorists for it to become so. We expressed our patriotism by changing our constitution to recognise the right to self determination for the people of Northern Ireland. We gave up our constitutional claim to the 6 counties of Northern Ireland as an act of Patriotism towards all Irishmen and Women, and as a clear rejection of the rifle and bomb. So anyway, patriotism is fun and all, but humanity seems a more important concept to me. Beers are on me :stout:
Actions lie louder than words - Carolyn Wells
I believe in God, only I spell it Nature - Frank Lloyd Wright. |
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acesover Special user I believe I have 821 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-10-19 18:59, LobowolfXXX wrote: Hmmm...Just how did you take it?
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
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acesover Special user I believe I have 821 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-10-19 15:04, Magnus Eisengrim wrote: I have absoutely no reason at all to hang my head in shame. Landmark's remarks were uncalled for and disrespectful and because you say differently does not make it so. By your posts I am quite sure you are not a United States citizen. I may be wrong. You sound like one of those Canada guys who for some unknown reason just do not like America or Americans. I really enjoy reading posts by people who have never participated in or experienced what they are posting about. You can spot them rather quickly. They are very critical and "ill informed expertrs". And make no mistake about them...they are experts on the subject. If you don't believe it just ask them. They make a lot of comments like the one above by Magnus Eisengrim, you will notice it has all the signs of the "Ill informed expert", such as no reson, just a statement. Here is the statement.: My only regret in this stupid thread is that I didn't jump to Landmark's defense. He certainly did not deserve the attack he received, and the macho posturers are the ones who should be hanging their heads in shame. But they won't be. Of course they won't be. When speaking the truth one has no reason to be ashamed. Why should they? You forgot to tell us WHY we should be ashamed. All you did was make a statement that came into your mind...big deal. You have not stated what you IMAGINE that reason is because there is none. Of course we know what your reason is. It is your dislike for America and Americans. My God, jealousy is a terrible trait to carry inside oneself. I almost feel sorry for you. If you are Canadian, things could have been so different for you if only you were born a few hundred mile more to the south. You may have turned out differently and not be so bitter and probably like Canadaians as most of us Americans do. Instead of...I guess I will just leave it unsaid. Ashamed, don't be absurd.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Right where the rubber meets the road "patriotism" is simply a matter of dates isn't it?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Bob1Dog Inner circle Wife: It's me or this houseful of 1159 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-10-19 15:04, Magnus Eisengrim wrote: Shame on you too. If one speaks against an American soldier for doing his job, one speaks against America. I don't shiv a git about your rhetoric. Frankly, as an Amerian citizen and veteran, I don't want you here. You offend me and those who have served America honorably. You should leave America to seek those who also hate America the way you do.
What if the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about?
My neighbor rang my doorbell at 2:30 a.m. this morning, can you believe that, 2:30 a.m.!? Lucky for him I was still up playing my drums. |
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Chessmann Inner circle 4242 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-10-20 01:11, Bob1Dog wrote: Bob, your desire was granted before you even knew it.
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
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Bob1Dog Inner circle Wife: It's me or this houseful of 1159 Posts |
Thanks for the heads-up on that, and let's keep him/her/it on the no fly list.
What if the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about?
My neighbor rang my doorbell at 2:30 a.m. this morning, can you believe that, 2:30 a.m.!? Lucky for him I was still up playing my drums. |
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Chessmann Inner circle 4242 Posts |
Well, that's not what I had in mind.
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
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stoneunhinged Inner circle 3067 Posts |
Bob, Magnus isn't an American
And frankly, I want him here. He's good people. Folks, I have never, ever--not once!--wished that any of you weren't here. You are my Internet bar mates, and I accept you on those terms. If I don't like what you say, I'll say so, and I'll speak my own mind. But stay as long as you like. In my own personal America, freedom of speech is the holiest of our rights. |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-10-19 23:44, acesover wrote: I took it to suggest that the bravery wasn't exclusively American.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Hmmm .... so a Tunnel Rat is like The Queen ....... she who can do no wrong.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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