The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Finger/stage manipulation » » Better Stealing Techniques/ Gimmicks? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

alextsui
View Profile
Regular user
Malaysia
154 Posts

Profile of alextsui
How many times have you seen a stage manipulator supposedly "distracts" with his front hand while fishing around (more like fumbling) for a load from his pocket with his upstage hand? Many times the steals are so visible and obvious.

It seems like we have placed so much focus on clean bare-handed vanishes with gimmicks such as pulls, Raven, Gecko to the point where our vanishes look so magically perfect. However, not much attention has been given to the art of producing something cleanly from our bare hands. Sure, there are so many production props like the square circle, mirror box, phantom tube, etc. but these don't look anywhere as magical as showing both hands empty and then immediately making something appear instantly out of thin air.

Do you know of any techniques or gimmicks that can achieve this effect? I'm still searching for the solution but I've been toying with the concept of a "reverse pull". A pull is normally used to extract an item from the hands so theoretically a "reverse pull" should be able to deliver an item at high speed into the hands and then going out of sight.

Please share your ideas and opinions on this topic. Thanks.

Alex
Bill Hegbli
View Profile
Eternal Order
Fort Wayne, Indiana
22006 Posts

Profile of Bill Hegbli
The problem lies with the performer and not the methods. Of course, improvements are always needed and wanted, but do to things being attached to the clothing or body, no one wants to mess with them.

Many silk steals are an example of such steals.

Jay Scott Berry wrote a booklet on his use of power reels and a method to obtain the end of the gimmick. It was just as you mentioned a reverse pull action.

There the Topit and Hold Out as well that no one uses do to the setup. Here the problem depends on an individual's act and material in that act, because you cannot have a delivery system and also do the Vanishing Bird Cage with out some real "path management" built into your custom.

If you are speaking of only being prepared to do one trick, then this may be possible, but here again, most magician will not want to take 10 minutest to set up one trick.

It is one thing to do an Act, but it another when most magician have to do a whole show. Most magician are "in one", meaning no assistants traveling or performing with them.

An example, I use to perform the Vanishing Bird Cage in my show, but gave it up because I had to perform for another 40 minutes still connected. I think I did very well, with spectators up on stage with me holding my wrist and such, but I had to think about not exposing that, and not the audience.

It may be the human element or maybe people looking for "Real Magic", but people just do not like thing attached to their body. If we did, there would be more then 2 experts on the Topit, and 1 expert on the Hold Out. Compare that to how many experts their are on the TT. Now there are more experts on the Dye Tube, but again, they have to steal it, and that is to much work for most people. Even when simple logical methods are given, it goes back to finding the most magical method, but they refuse to be connected.

That is how I see the use of such devices in the magic community.
Vietnam Veteran 1967, Sgt. E-5

Graduate of Chavez College of Prestidigitation and Showmanship

"Magic With A Twist Of Comedy"
Dougini
View Profile
Inner circle
The Beautiful State Of Maine
6680 Posts

Profile of Dougini
Personally I have never had that problem. My wire ball holders (no jokes, please) have worked for me better than anything else I've tried.

The Hold Out is my next best utility, other than The R@ven. It's the Jack Miller version. You're right about everything else.

Doug
Michael Baker
View Profile
Eternal Order
Near a river in the Midwest
11157 Posts

Profile of Michael Baker
There are a handful (no pun intended) of techniques for bare hand productions, ranging from sleeving to elastics, to catapults and of course steals and/or acquitments. The technique chosen will often depend not only on the object, but also how overtly the hands are shown empty in placement to the actual production. You'll find a lot more latitude for technique if the hands are seen empty, rather than shown empty.

A series of acquitments can further implant the perception that the hands are empty, sometimes in a casual display. These can often be more powerful techniques than deliberately showing the hands empty while concealing something. The spectator's mind is a powerful tool that many magicians neglect.

Stealing with the upstage hand is not only way overused, it is also the weakest of all techniques. These require body turns that when done one time too many will trigger an alarm in the spectator's vigilance. Once the pattern is noticed (and eventually it will be), then anytime one hand goes out of sight, it becomes suspect.

The same could be said for any technique. Dove workers typically belabor the usual stealing technique, and after a couple productions, the pattern is transparent.

Regarding devices to be used to deliver goods to the point of production, something as simple as a rubber band has been used quite successfully. It depends on the item. Ron MacMillan had a really interesting device for delivering balls. Check the book on his act, "Symphony of the Spheres" for details.

In general, Bill said it well in that people don't like things attached to their bodies. Magicians can certainly be an exception, but the more of these devices you saddle yourself with, the more likely the chance of something fouling up. In most cases, the simpler the better. Covert steals and productions. If you understand what you need to do, you can design a device that secures the item where you need it, specific to the need.

Not saying that you should not play with ideas that do what you desire, but don't put method ahead of effect.
~michael baker
The Magic Company
Bill Hegbli
View Profile
Eternal Order
Fort Wayne, Indiana
22006 Posts

Profile of Bill Hegbli
Alextsui, without knowing what item you are referring to in your post, makes it difficult to offer suggestions or references. As all delivery systems are different for different props. Coins, Balls, Cards, Cigarettes, Thimbles, and silks all have different gimmicks do to the shape, size, weight of the times.

As far as steals to replace a deliver system, I note that most manipulators today, do not work on the speed of the steal. As Michael Baker mentioned, the hand going out of sight will, sooner or later be noticed. Channing Pollack is a good example of how steal are accomplished with great speed and accuracy. I had to watch even his old video several times to get what was happening.

Slow and Artistic may be a good time killer, but in almost every instance, it is seen what is going on, and this kills the illusion. I have seen some acts, that can accomplish this slow steal technique, but they also let the audience see the area their hands were at, and there is nothing apparent to discover a place something was taken from. Thus their movements are show to be only movements, and not for any other purpose.

The most unique delivery system for a silk is this one:
http://www.eastcoastmagic.com/eacomaprflsi.html

This is a version of a silk production invented by Carlos Corda's Silk Sensation. A very good silk delivery system.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

My comments earlier on the magicians not liking things attached to their body is being misread. What I was referring to was not ball holders, as these are not a delivery system but as the name implies a holder system.

I was as mentioned speaking of devices like the Holdout, Topit, and line Pulls. In order to become proficient with these devices, you have to wear them all the time. So when you get dressed in the morning, it is part of putting on your daily cloths.

As Michael Baker mentioned, if one was to say use a multi purpose Holdout, then it would get in the way of say, Parasol and Hand Fan Productions, and even some Billiard Ball, coin, and Cigarette moves that come to mind using the sleeves.
Vietnam Veteran 1967, Sgt. E-5

Graduate of Chavez College of Prestidigitation and Showmanship

"Magic With A Twist Of Comedy"
Michael Baker
View Profile
Eternal Order
Near a river in the Midwest
11157 Posts

Profile of Michael Baker
The silk production in the video looks pretty good. Too bad he followed it with a lousy bottle steal.

Regarding my comments on ball holders, those I referenced DO deliver the ball, and are more than just a holder. Check the book.
~michael baker
The Magic Company
RJH
View Profile
Elite user
Finland
477 Posts

Profile of RJH
Hmm.. Stealing.. Channing Pollock is a great.. I have watched it several times.. See nothing. In 2 weeks I'm going to get my mentors old suit with topits and stuff. So happy! Smile

RJH
alextsui
View Profile
Regular user
Malaysia
154 Posts

Profile of alextsui
Quote:
On 2012-10-23 17:03, Bill Hegbli wrote:
Alextsui, without knowing what item you are referring to in your post, makes it difficult to offer suggestions or references. As all delivery systems are different for different props. Coins, Balls, Cards, Cigarettes, Thimbles, and silks all have different gimmicks do to the shape, size, weight of the times.


I just wish that there was a course or DVD on Stealing techniques, gimmicks for various items to help beginner magicians (or even experienced pros) to perfect their steals. I've done a search on this but couldn't find anything- probably some of you experts should produce such a DVD. I am sure it will benefit many magicians and improve the standard of our art further.

Thanks.
Bill Hegbli
View Profile
Eternal Order
Fort Wayne, Indiana
22006 Posts

Profile of Bill Hegbli
Alextsui, I can only suggest a book like:

Encyclopedia of Silk Magic,
Tony Marks Arsitocrat of Deception,
Ade Duval Silken Sorcerer,
Silk Supreme by Keith Clark
Geoffey Buckingham books "It's Easier Then You Think"


DVDs:
Geoffrey Buckingham Manipulations DVD 2 volumes
Levent Manipulation Act
Levent Ultimate Guide to the Miser's Dream
Levent Ultimate Guide to Billard Balls

Jeff McBride Magic on Stage 3 volumes
Jeff McBride Manipulation without tears
Vietnam Veteran 1967, Sgt. E-5

Graduate of Chavez College of Prestidigitation and Showmanship

"Magic With A Twist Of Comedy"
mtpascoe
View Profile
Inner circle
1933 Posts

Profile of mtpascoe
The problem is with the timing of the steals. When you turn your body to make the steal then face front and produce said item, any thinking person will connect the dots. But, if you delay it and use time misdirection, then you can create the same kind of effect.

Of course there is nothing more magical I guess than cleanly showing your hands empty and then "bam" producing something.

There is a flash method of producing a silk. Hands are shown empty and a silk appears. A reverse pull idea of sorts.
Bill Hegbli
View Profile
Eternal Order
Fort Wayne, Indiana
22006 Posts

Profile of Bill Hegbli
And I forgot the latest offerings:

DVDs:
Parasol Anywhere, production of parasol umbrellas
FANtasy, production of oriental hand fans.
Vietnam Veteran 1967, Sgt. E-5

Graduate of Chavez College of Prestidigitation and Showmanship

"Magic With A Twist Of Comedy"
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Finger/stage manipulation » » Better Stealing Techniques/ Gimmicks? (0 Likes)
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2019 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.19 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL