The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Grand illusion » » Illusion plans and building your own illusions (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page 1~2 [Next]
havagrim
View Profile
New user
54 Posts

Profile of havagrim
Hi there people!

I am fairly new to this forum. I have been lurking it for quite some time, and recently decided to register. don't know why I havent done so until now. But oh well. Here I am.

Now, to my questions.

I have been contemplating to build myself some smaller illusions (dagger chest, metamorphis, sawing in half etc). Maybe not "small". But yeah, you get the idea.

I do mostly parlour magic at parties and a lot of close-up stuff. But I also do stage magic, and I really enjoy that. Now I am considering getting some tricks that show better on a stage. I am saving for a Losander floating table for instance.

BUT, now when it comes to say dagger chest. I saw on Abbot's magic website that they sell the illusion plans for that. If I buy that, I can build the illusion AND use it? What are the rules? What stuff can I use, and what cant I use. How do I know?

I mean most tricks have already been done. Today they are just improved versions of old ideas. I do firmly belive in not stealing other magicians ideas and improvements and I would never buy say a copy floating table for instance. But whats the deal if I buy illusion plans/dvd/books with blue prints etc. Can I build and USE the illusion just because I own the blue print? I guess talking to whoever has credit for it and asking for permision is the way to go. But what about when the creator is dead?

I am confused here! Help! Smile

/Ronnie Kash
"The world is my playground"
Magician from Sweden.
akschulz
View Profile
New user
London, UK via Charlotte, NC
81 Posts

Profile of akschulz
Hi Ronnie,

that's actually an interesting question...one I've not really ever considered. I always assumed that if you buy the plans for an illusion (or a pattern, say, for a suit or dress for example) then you can go and use that to make the end product. Selling the design/pattern/instructions/recipe seems like selling the license to produce the product to me.

Alec
havagrim
View Profile
New user
54 Posts

Profile of havagrim
Yes. That is what I have always thought aswell. I mean if the constructor sells or gives out his blue print in a book, I assume he wants me to both construct AND use it. But I want to be sure. don't want to step on anyones toes Smile

Thanks for your reply

Ronnie
"The world is my playground"
Magician from Sweden.
magicelam
View Profile
Veteran user
Tennessee
368 Posts

Profile of magicelam
Ronnie,

Usually you're free to use ANYTHING you build. Unless it is copyrighted, trademarked, etc. etc. (You can read up on that here:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use)

Selling is a different beast all together. I have an Osborne plan that actually states that rights to the illusion are not included, and it tells you who the "licensed" builder is.

All of that being said, I'd steer clear of trying to build anything on this list without permission:
http://www.magicauction.com/IllusionHotl......ghts.htm

Also, if you have questions about a particular illusion, ask on here. This place is, right or wrong, full of answers.

Also, nothing seems to anger people more than knock-off origami, interlude, and kalin spikers, so don't even watch videos of those on youtube, or the Café WILL KNOW.

The three illusions you mentioned, build away. No one will care. That being said, be sure you have an original presentation. Or just do David Copperfield's presentation. That's a really popular option.
Mike
havagrim
View Profile
New user
54 Posts

Profile of havagrim
Thank you very much for an very helpful answer. I will read up on the links provided, and don't worry. I have some good routines in mind, and hopefully I will be atleast somewhat original.

Thank you and be well!

Time to go and chop some wood..

Ronnie
"The world is my playground"
Magician from Sweden.
Matt Adams
View Profile
Special user
Harvest, AL
826 Posts

Profile of Matt Adams
Quote:
On 2012-11-03 07:24, magicelam wrote:

All of that being said, I'd steer clear of trying to build anything on this list without permission:
http://www.magicauction.com/IllusionHotl......ghts.htm


That list is very very old and many of those items aren't even around anymore. For a more up to date list that is still being worked on (the only one to my knowledge), check out the following:
http://www.illusionrepository.com

Hope that helps!
Website: www.MattAdamsMinistries.com

Instagram: @mattadamsministries

Facebook: www.facebook.com/mattadamsministries
Higgenbottom
View Profile
New user
84 Posts

Profile of Higgenbottom
If it's an Abbott's plan, ask Abbott's.
Matt Adams
View Profile
Special user
Harvest, AL
826 Posts

Profile of Matt Adams
Quote:
On 2012-11-03 07:08, havagrim wrote:
Yes. That is what I have always thought aswell. I mean if the constructor sells or gives out his blue print in a book, I assume he wants me to both construct AND use it. But I want to be sure. don't want to step on anyones toes Smile

Thanks for your reply

Ronnie


As long as the publisher is also the creator, you are fine (unless he otherwise specifies something like "TV Performance Rights withheld" or something similar - then you'd have to contact the creator to obtain those specific rights if you wanted to do it on TV).

However, Osborne put out a lot of plans for effects that weren't really his. So the blueprints alone aren't "rights" - you are correct in that the best thing to do is contact the creator (and most can easily be contacted and are more than happy to help).

If they are deceased, you will want to do a bit of research from sites such as http://www.illusionrepository.com to see if the illusion is public domain or still protected. Often members on the Café can help point you in the right direction as well (but sometimes not! But hey...if the creator is deceased then you don't have many other options other than to turn to the community.)

Good luck with your research!
Website: www.MattAdamsMinistries.com

Instagram: @mattadamsministries

Facebook: www.facebook.com/mattadamsministries
maharajademagia
View Profile
Regular user
126 Posts

Profile of maharajademagia
Quote:
On 2012-11-03 07:24, magicelam wrote:
Ronnie,
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use)



This link does not show anything.

Quote:

I have an Osborne plan that actually states that rights to the illusion are not included, and it tells you who the "licensed" builder is.



Which Osborne plan states that?
Bill Hegbli
View Profile
Eternal Order
Fort Wayne, Indiana
22590 Posts

Profile of Bill Hegbli
Quote:
On 2012-11-03 07:24, magicelam wrote:
Ronnie,

Usually you're free to use ANYTHING you build. Unless it is copyrighted, trademarked, etc. etc. (You can read up on that here:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use)


If you remove the parenthesis you will get this site:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use
Michael Baker
View Profile
Eternal Order
Near a river in the Midwest
11161 Posts

Profile of Michael Baker
Once you finally decide what you plan to build, come hang out in the Café's Workshop. Lots of folks in the know that can guide you if you need help.
~michael baker
The Magic Company
RyanDicharry
View Profile
New user
53 Posts

Profile of RyanDicharry
I understand your confusion. There has been several instances that I have heard you can purchase plans from someone like osborne ie: Mini Cube Zag and not be able to build or perform with out the proper rights. Its hard to understand how you can pay for blueprints and not use them. Do your homework before spending a bunch on money constructing something you cant legally use.

Ryan
Mike Maturen
View Profile
Inner circle
Michigan's Beautiful Sunrise Side
2726 Posts

Profile of Mike Maturen
The site Matt Adams suggested in the best current source for what illusions folks can build and use.

http://www.illusionrepository.com
Mike Maturen
World of Wonder Entertainment
The Magic and Mayhem of Mike Maturen
989-335-1661
mikematuren@gmail.com

AUTHOR OF "A NEW DAWN--Weekly Wisdom From Everyday Life"

member: International Magician's Society
DavidThomas
View Profile
Loyal user
231 Posts

Profile of DavidThomas
You might consider the "magic auction" They have a lot of used illusions and many seem to be reasonably priced. Purchasing an illusion from an established builder will help you understand the proper construction techniques for building yours in the future.
David Thomas
TheWorldofMagic.com
Dennis Loomis
View Profile
1943 - 2013
2113 Posts

Profile of Dennis Loomis
I've been in magic all of my life and I still don't really understand how an illusion moves from "Protected" status to the Public Domain. The Zig Zag was definitely protected, in writing. But after a time everybody started to build them. And this has happened to most all of the better illusions. Origami, for example, has been pirated repeatedly.

It seems that if one person steals an illusion he's a thief. But if several people do, then the illusion is considered Public Domain.

Dennis "Denny" Loomis
Itinerant Montebank
<BR>http://www.loomismagic.com
john wills
View Profile
Special user
940 Posts

Profile of john wills
Dennis,

A M E N.
DavidThomas
View Profile
Loyal user
231 Posts

Profile of DavidThomas
Yes, this really becomes mind boggling. Reality everything we magicians do was the created by someone, somewhere. Channing Polluck took the magic world by storm with his use of doves in a different way. Then copied immediately and became "public domain". Zig Zag? Twister? Cube Zag? And really going back, who invented the first "pick a card" trick. Do those rights go on forever?
David Thomas
TheWorldofMagic.com
harbour
View Profile
Loyal user
284 Posts

Profile of harbour
If you buy it, you can perform it.
If it is not for sale, it is not yours.
Frank Simpson
View Profile
Special user
SW Montana
881 Posts

Profile of Frank Simpson
Sorry, Harbour, this is NOT the litmus test. There are many knock-offs for sale, from disreputable dealers.
Luis Vega
View Profile
New user
Leon Guanajuato Mexico
74 Posts

Profile of Luis Vega
Thanks for the info so far!!
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Grand illusion » » Illusion plans and building your own illusions (0 Likes)
 Go to page 1~2 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2020 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.31 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL