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Vlad_77
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Quote:
On 2012-11-11 18:34, magicelam wrote:
So true, Harv, so true. Unfortunately, based on a post on youtube as well as here, they've decided to market it regardless.

Dave will not get on here to defend his stance, he speaks through Kermit.


Hi Mike,

If Dave doesn't come on here to defend his position - especially since MUST know that he has lifted John Cornelius' effect - unittingly or not - he knows NOW, then magicians will spread the word and in our community word spreads quickly. What's more, this forum is the largest open magic forum around and, well, Dave is really putting his credibility on the line.

Simply put, if he is a friend of yours, or you are a customer, you need to tell him that by not either defending his position and/or talking to John Cornelius, no other conclusion can be drawn other than that Dave has committed theft of intellectual property. Since I was the one that first posted that the effect was at least similar but that I did not have the Cornelius book at hand, I did not want to state categorically that the method and effect were identical. Zuke confirmed that they are. I have since pulled the book out of storage and Dave's effect IS the Cornelius effect and the method IS the same. Roland Henning's blog has picked this up and Dave can bet the farm that other fora and blogs will pick this up as well.

Mike, I feel sorry for you in that you have unwittingly become involved in this. If you are a customer of Dave's, I would suggest you find a new dealer; intellectual theft is inexcusable. The fact that he chooses to market this effect is a testimony to his dishonesty. Starting tomorrow, I will be in touch with every American dealer I know - and it's quite a list - and warn them about this so that they do not sell this effect or anything from Dave.

Namaste,
Vlad

PS: In case the YouTube video is pulled, the pertinent contact information can be found here:

http://www.tophatmagicsupply.com/
Vlad_77
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http://www.tophatmagicsupply.com/index.p......ory_id=3

Look at the video for an effect called "Outlaw"

Well, it seems there is ANOTHER problem at this shop!

Watch the above effect. The first part should remind you of a VERY well known effect popularized by Michael Skinner. The second effect is EERILY close to Richard Vollmer's "Poor Man's Monte" from Apocalypse. (NOTE: The person performing is NOT this Dave person)

Actually, I can't say the name of this dealer's seemingly principal dealer, so I would invite any of you to investigate the products and note carefully what distributor supplies many of the effects in Dave's shop. Yes it's a stiff proposition when you have other things going on, but, please "make" the time Smile
magicelam
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Vlad, a little history. Dave was a magic legend in my area. He performed a straight Copperfield-copy show, but we were all young and amazed he had stage illusions. When he opened a magic shop, all the local guys became extremely excited.

As I grew in magic, and started performing professionally, I constantly met a lot of guys who wanted to learn/get better. So I teamed up with a buddy of mine to bring the first IBM ring to the area, as well as start a convention, the Twin City Magic Convention. You may have heard of it, it had four great years, and one horrible year.

Dave and I became close as he came off as a guy who wanted to see me be successful. Unfortunately, what I didn't know, was that I, like so many others before me, was being used. As soon as Dave got in a position to turn the magic community against me, he did.

A lot has come to light since those days, and no one involved in magic in our area associates with Dave really, except Kermit. I still talk to some of the other guys, but it'll never be the same.

As far as this goes, when I posted it, I knew it was stolen, and I knew it was wrong, but I didn't wanna be the one to pull the trigger. I didn't want to look like some guy who was out for revenge - because that is how Dave would've painted it. He is a constant victim.

So, I posted it here for you guys. And now that everyone knows who we're dealing with, I don't mind to lead the crusade.

So, in the short answer Vlad, I don't associate with this guy, and I never will. He is everything I hate about magic.
Mike
tomsk192
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Quote:
Actually, I can't say the name of this dealer's seemingly principal dealer, so I would invite any of you to investigate the products and note carefully what distributor supplies many of the effects in Dave's shop. Yes it's a stiff proposition when you have other things going on, but, please "make" the time Smile


Aha! That comes as no surprise Smile
kermitjohnson
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Hello, my name is kermit johnson, I'm dave vaughts co-owner & yes we have spoken w/ john via email & apologize, he said he would forward it to those who doubted this. daves dilema is no longer for sale & the video is being removed from youtube. As soon as we were made aware of the issue we began correcting it. And for the record, not 1 sold. Nor did you contact dave or myself to get our side of the issue (research I believe). To the best of my knowledge & having known dave for so long I believe he thought it to be original, why else would he risk this b.s. this ws my post on the magic blog listed above.

Next as for the effect outlaw, it was released by magic makers, not us, and is available at shops everywhere.


As for dave talking through me, wrong, I say it from me, then let him know, since he doesn't use the internet for facebook, here, youtube etc.

Now I have myself seen the Ammar set years ago, along w/ thousands of other magic videos & I as well as you all can not remember it all.

If you wish to speak w/dave call 423 968 3200, regaurding this or any other issue.
Illusionist Kermit Johnson
kermitjohnson
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I feel this need be said as well, as for dave wanting someone to be successf ive been his friend for over 10 years, & he has done nothing to me but help m grow. And anytime I need him hes the & expects nothing in return. As you can see above(mr elam) others go out of their way try and hurt people (not his first time) As for this topic & the creater of it, I have said all I will say.
Illusionist Kermit Johnson
magicelam
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Kermit,

I definitely won't address any of the dirty laundry you're trying to air here. I sent you a private message. I've known you far longer than the people on here, and I respect you too much to talk about the real Dave on here.

I'm also guessing you guys found out John wasn't so keen on you releasing his trick as your own.
Mike
Siraldi
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I decided to take a day and relax and goof around on the internet and ran across this topic. It seems that I am a little late on the discussion. I only want to add a few things. The only person I personally know on this discussion is Kermit. I want to say that Kermit Johnson is a GREAT guy and that I know what he says to be true.

The other thing I want to add... is that I am by no means the best performer around; but have worked hard through my life and especially this past year and a half on magic and I want to thank everyone who has pushed me and helped me out (including plenty of people on here!) But the number one person I credit to any of my success is Dave Vaught. He has helped me so much that I cannot BEGIN to state what all he has done. Part of what I have accomplished is from my determination; part from friends and family; part from random magicians who have helped me out; but I sincerely give Dave most of the credit for helping me out. He has never done one thing to hurt me. When we first met his words to me were "I may not can help you; but if I can't help you I won't hurt you" and he has lived by that.

I am not here to give my credentials or brag about myself. But I will say that I know that a lot of important men in magic; especially in the Appalachia area; are very fond of Dave. All I want to say is that this helps no one in the field of magic. When things happen you need to contact people and talk with them; not go around talking about them. I am learning on of the most important parts of being a "magician" is preserving the art. So lend a hand and help each other and encourage one another.

I want to say thank you magicelam for taking this private; but I just wanted to clear a thing or two up about Dave. He is one of the greatest men I know or have ever met and he has pushed me to become the man and magician I am today.
magicelam
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Siraldi,

I won't say anything bad. But I will say this, I can introduce you to plenty of people who felt the same way you do at some point. I give Dave some credit for helping me as well.

That being said, a lot can happen over time. Some relationships grow, some fail. It is life.

But when you see numerous failures in one area (this area being magic), I think it is always best to find the common denominator. And eliminate it. And that is what I, and so many others, had to do in order to grow, perform, and further the art.

And things like this DO HELP people in the field of magic. And the field of ethics. And the field of personable responsibility. And the field of honesty. And the field of trust. And the field of friendship. And building relationships. And just being a good person who does the right thing.

Stealing something and calling it yours, on all levels, is not the right thing. Regardless of who you respect, who you love, who helps you the most, and who takes you the farthest. At the end of the day, the crime doesn't change, and we shouldn't ignore it or condone it.

Good luck on the journey of becoming a great magician. Always surround yourself with those who truly want to build you up.

-Mike
Mike
Siraldi
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Mike Elam

c'est la vie

And we'll just have to agree to disagree on how this helps or doesn't.

I can assure you that Dave's intentions were completely genuine.

And at the end of the day all that matters is who you love and what you love. That's my opinion.

I appreciate the hope you send. I wish you all the success. And I have the greatest support group that any man could dream of.

Siraldi
magicdave56
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Who has Dave,s Dilemma ?
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