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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » NLP and Scientology (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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kasper
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Is there a difference between these two practices?
Mike Ince
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What have you found about Scientology from reading online? I don't see many similarities to NLP aside from the stated intent of both practices: to fix people's problems.

Do you mean to ask if the two things share anything in common? One is an expensive, trendy Hollywood religion and the other has to do with influence and a pseudoscientific model for affecting personal change. You might use NLP while attempting to convert someone to Scientology or while selling a car; I don't know much about NLP but that's my impression from friends who use it. Scientology and NLP are both explained well on Wikipedia's site. One seems to be a religion, the other a set of tools. Both are criticized as being untrue (one was even founded by a pulp fiction writer). We may be treading on sensitive ground by talking about Scientology here since it's a recognized religion.
The secret of deception is in making the truth seem ridiculous.
Al Desmond
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Quote:
On 2012-11-08 17:14, Mike Ince wrote:
What have you found about Scientology from reading online? I don't see many similarities to NLP aside from the stated intent of both practices: to fix people's problems.

Do you mean to ask if the two things share anything in common? One is an expensive, trendy Hollywood religion and the other has to do with influence and a pseudoscientific model for affecting personal change. You might use NLP while attempting to convert someone to Scientology or while selling a car; I don't know much about NLP but that's my impression from friends who use it. Scientology and NLP are both explained well on Wikipedia's site. One seems to be a religion, the other a set of tools. Both are criticized as being untrue (one was even founded by a pulp fiction writer). We may be treading on sensitive ground by talking about Scientology here since it's a recognized religion.


First off Scientology is not a recognized religion in a number of western countries. Secondly your statement is the same as saying that Randi may be treading on sensitive ground if he talks about some of the scams he has uncovered, scams disguised as spiritual ventures. And worst of all, you may be saying that we may be treading on sensitive ground the same way if we talk about Slim King's outrageous claims.

"Sensitive grounds" is not a scientific reason to not investigate something. It sounds good to the patchouli crowd, but it has no basis in discussing reality.
Mike Ince
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Al, I'm not a fan of Scientology and I don't consider it a religion, but the U.S. government does and the Café has a policy about avoiding religious commentary. The Café is sensitive ground for religious discussions because of the rules here. That's why I'm pointing kasper to Wikipedia. He can make up his own mind.

In the meantime, http://themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic......rum=39&0 . I'm happy to talk religion outside of this site - don't get the wrong impression. Investigating religious claims is becoming a significant pursuit for me.
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Al Desmond
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Fine.

Then I would ask Slim King to stop posting stories about psychic phenomena and the sort. He believes in Spiritualism, capital "S," as a religion, and according to the link you just posted, his discussions should not be posted here.

I'll make sure I point this out, over and over, until he stops.
Chaz93
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Kasper - Yes, there is.
DekEl
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They are completely different. The name and the fact that it's not quite as effective as it's chalked up to be might seem a little similar, but they're not.
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Slim King
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Quote:
On 2012-11-08 20:23, Al Desmond wrote:
Fine.

Then I would ask Slim King to stop posting stories about psychic phenomena and the sort. He believes in Spiritualism, capital "S," as a religion, and according to the link you just posted, his discussions should not be posted here.

I'll make sure I point this out, over and over, until he stops.


YOU ARE RIGHT ... I STAND UP AGAINST THOSE WHO ATTACK THE SPIRITUALIST RELIGION!!!!

It is against the rules to do it here .. It's bigotry at its worst!
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
Ray Bertrand
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There is a total difference in the two. Scientology is based on certain pseudo religious principles developed by Ron Hubbard. NLP or Neuro Linguistic Programming is a pseudoscientific model for affecting personal change and many people attest to it's value in the areas of sales and personal relationships. A strong supporter of this methodology is Tony Robbins.

Ray
Mentalism in Ontario.
seadog93
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On 2012-11-08 16:27, kasper wrote:
Is there a difference between these two practices?


Everything
"Love is the magician who pulls man out of his own hat" - Ben Hecht

"Love says 'I am everything.' Wisdom says 'I am nothing'. Between the two, my life flows." -Nisargadatta Maharaj

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DekEl
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Quote:
On 2012-11-08 22:27, Slim King wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-11-08 20:23, Al Desmond wrote:
Fine.

Then I would ask Slim King to stop posting stories about psychic phenomena and the sort. He believes in Spiritualism, capital "S," as a religion, and according to the link you just posted, his discussions should not be posted here.

I'll make sure I point this out, over and over, until he stops.


YOU ARE RIGHT ... I STAND UP AGAINST THOSE WHO ATTACK THE SPIRITUALIST RELIGION!!!!

It is against the rules to do it here .. It's bigotry at its worst!


Although I don't really see it as an attack, I do find your stories rather amusing.
You can purchase my works at: http://www.GetMindTricks.com
Jon_Thompson
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Quote:
On 2012-11-08 16:27, kasper wrote:
Is there a difference between these two practices?

One's a grab bag of techniques looking for a use, the other's a kooky piece of pseudo-religion about volcanoes and hydrogen bombs, in which the faithful are encouraged to confess all for future use if they ever try to leave.
Voodini
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On 2012-11-09 05:24, Jon_Thompson wrote:

a grab bag of techniques looking for a use... a kooky piece of pseudo-religion

Leave the Church of England out of this! Smile
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IAIN
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...i thought one was about a comic book writer who took certain ideas from other religions and made it his own, and NLP is about two people who took certain ideas from milton erikson and made it their own...

I think Scientology is equally as valid as any other religion...both have made a lot of money out it, which is obviously what is all about...

*takes tongue out of cheek*
I've asked to be banned
Jon_Thompson
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Quote:
On 2012-11-09 05:29, Voodini wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-11-09 05:24, Jon_Thompson wrote:

a grab bag of techniques looking for a use... a kooky piece of pseudo-religion

Leave the Church of England out of this! Smile

The Conservative party at prayer Smile
Jim Sparx
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When is somebody going to mention Hitler?
jakubr
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Scientology is claimed to be religion by some people, NLP = neuro-linguistic programming and some people believe you can use it to change some aspects of your life or understand others better. I don't think those two have much in common. Maybe the face that they build on believe.
DekEl
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Quote:
On 2012-11-10 14:10, spartacus wrote:
When is somebody going to mention Hitler?


Enter Godwin's Law.
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J.CADEAC
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Maybe I don't clearly understand the meaning of the initial question..but..What is the relationship ?
I mean..NLP is a tool. No ?

Scientology is an organization...not a practice. As are other "religious" groups.

Maybe the question was "Do they use NLP ?"

But I don't understand the comparison...
"You must either modify your dreams or magnify your skills".
seadog93
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My guess is that the question is possibly related to the fact that both practices use scientific sounding phrases to describe their "tech." They both have pretensions to the scientific aesthetic, if not science or the scientific method. They both make fantastic claims and presumably have has at least some fantastic results (I don't have any first hand personal experience with Scientology though). They both have controversial founders (Bandler at least is controversial, I don't know anything about Grinder) and both have received criticisms of being cult-like and manipulative.

These are all, obviously, very superficial similarities though and could probably be applied to most popular movements and practices;
... Like mentalism. Smile
"Love is the magician who pulls man out of his own hat" - Ben Hecht

"Love says 'I am everything.' Wisdom says 'I am nothing'. Between the two, my life flows." -Nisargadatta Maharaj

Seadog=C-Dawg=C.ou.rtn.ey Kol.b
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