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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Fear and Faith Derren Brown (3 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Fire Starter
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Well just watched this on iplayer and really did enjoy this one and even brought an emotional tear to my eye of gladness for some of the participants who managed to conquer their fears,good stuff DB.
TonyB2009
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I second that. Enjoyable TV.
Beesharp
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To me, this was so much more enjoyable than the end-of-the-recently-zombie-infected-world thing.

Seems like Mr. Brown has gone from mentalist, via debunker to some kind of wannabe therapist. Can't help but to wonder where he's going from there. There's not much entertainment in meditating in a cave for eight straight years, but then again people do watch a lot of tedious reality TV shows.
revelation77
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For someone who generally doesn't like reality TV, I found this really entertaining.
Definitely looking forward to the next episode. "Next week I'll be looking at what could be the biggest placebo of them all...god."
Knows how to ruffle feathers, our Derren.
Mind illusionist
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Really liked this show too. His hint at God being a placebo though for next week. Im sure its certain to start some arguaments like wildfire. still interseted to see it though
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Pakar Ilusi
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Mr. Brown...

Smile
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
Pakar Ilusi
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He is now officially my Hero... Smile

On the same level as Copperfield.
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
nimrod
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Great show.
IAIN
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I can't watch them...i'm experiencing an internal conflict with his more recent tv shows... he's been VERY vocal about about nasty evil tarot readers, talking about all that they do is scamming people, how person x is cheating you, how person z is only doing it for the money and has no official training/qualifications in what they are doing...and yet...

the shows are being shown under the derren brown, the mentalist, the magician, the anti-woo, critical thinking skeptic...yet, there he is (he and he alone) is going about enabling people to change their lives via his gifts/knack/abilities...because he is derren brown, and no one else can do this apart from him...

I find it strange... that, all of derren's anti-this, and they are scamming you-thats, he too is gently scamming the public...

but wait I hear you say, he's helping people change their lives for the better, surely you can't be against that? and no, no I'm not...what I am against is the double standards..."its ok if I DO IT, because I'M not scamming anyone, I'M not lying, and don't ask me about my qualifications!".

behind the scenes, we have groups of therapists, hypnotherapists, counsellors, psychologists, every care is given...great, well done... however, the delivery is that its about derren doing all of this, and he's not...he's scamming you for the sake of an entertaining show...i know he's a lovely man, extremely talented, one of the best mentalists of all time, and will forever be seen as so - I just think, this is inauthentic of him...he wants to help others, he wants to make a difference to people's lives, that is noble, lovely and wonderful of him to want to do this...

to use the usual arguments against him for a moment, why doesn't he train to be a therapist? why doesn't he just give those people the care/treatment/experiences regardless, and not make a tv show out of people's short-comings?

I feel very conflicted, and as I say, as entertaining as his shows can be, wooly-self-help, feel-good experiences? pseudo-scientific theory being used to deliver something to potentially 'heal' people? isn't that what he's rallied against for years? I am reminded of the line in one of the banachek books (i think on CMR) that soon enough, if you're not careful, you start believing in what you're doing is real...

I am not against metaphorical healing, life changing experiences, nor the urge to enable people to transform themselves into a brighter and stronger version of themselves...what I find problematic, is that after years of being told by derren and those that mimic him (sorry, but there's plenty that have) - that anything like this is wrong, immoral, unethical and whatever else...its the double-standards of it all that irk me...what next? Derren's little ginger book of self-helping whimsy?

don't want to sound harsh or heavy about it, as the vast majority of us love derren on many levels, and in all interviews he has been nothing other than eloquent, funny and charming..its just THIS IS REALLY ANNOYING ME!

sorry...
Voodini
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What Iain said.
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revelation77
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Interesting points, Iain. But I think I'm struggling to follow all of them...From what I remember (Please point out where I'm wrong), Derren is quite vocally against people who take advantage of someone's belief system and use deception to squeeze money out of them. Not so much the helping people change lives for the better.
Quote:
because he is derren brown, and no one else can do this apart from him...

I also haven't read the more recent stuff has been as: 'Me, me, me' as you suggest. I felt this most recent show was more about empowering everyone to trust their own ability to overcome their own fear. This was accentuated by the whole 'Rumyodin' equals 'your mind' thing.
I believe Derren's ultimate, overall objective here is to create an entertaining show for the public. And that he manages to do rather well.

...or maybe I'm totally missing your point haha
Quite possible.
IAIN
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Basically, he is delivering hiis message via the derren brand, we know him as a magician/mentalist...therefore all that he does has that brand affixed to it in one way or another...

darth vader doesn't appear in tinto brass movies...

derren is seen as an expert in certain matters, yet with no qualifications to back this up (as far as I know-i would have hoped he'd advertise those qualifications during the show if he has.)
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Quote:
On 2012-11-14 10:50, IAIN wrote:
Basically, he is delivering hiis message via the derren brand, we know him as a magician/mentalist...therefore all that he does has that brand affixed to it in one way or another...

darth vader doesn't appear in tinto brass movies...

derren is seen as an expert in certain matters, yet with no qualifications to back this up (as far as I know-i would have hoped he'd advertise those qualifications during the show if he has.)


He is an entertainer.
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IAIN
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Indeed...

an entertainer changing peoples beliefs and lives...

done after saying ALL readers are scam artists and generally being critical...

hence the double-standards comment..
DekEl
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At the risk of sounding incredibly naive, I see this rather simply. He's going through an experiment both to help people (more of a latent effect), but also to bring awareness. Awareness of the actual extent of what we think and the degree in which it clouds our subjective judgement, which can act as a segway for approaching more sticky topics of belief systems and the like. The fact that he's doing it in an ethical or reasonably ethical manner and helping specific people is more of a side benefit thant the main intent (although he keeps chalking it up as if it was the main intent). That's why he doesn't simply become a therapist or a practicing hypnotherapist.

And unlike a reader or someone resolving issues in that manner, he views the utter honesty of the process as something more important than the end result. Although this is generally a divided discussion, I'm inclined to agree with him. The fact that we can produce the same results in an utterly honest fashion, though it might take a bit more work is surely worth it, particularly in the long run. The placebo effect just happens to be a particularly excellent demosntration of the extent of how we can change our own thought processes that just happens to require some form of guise until the end, but the end result is stronger and rooted in blunt honesty.

Also, in terms of having an agenda besides just helping people, readers and various other people that he condemns also have a very distinct agenda that overarches any good they might do: to make money.
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IAIN
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My point is being missed, quite possibly my fault...and everyone is entitled to their own opinion obviously...
DekEl
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Quote:
On 2012-11-14 12:25, IAIN wrote:
My point is being missed, quite possibly my fault...and everyone is entitled to their own opinion obviously...


As I said, "At the risk of sounding incredibly naive".. Smile
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tboehnlein
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Ian I follow you exactly additionally all these views spill over to not just his views on readers but religious beliefs also.
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