The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Fear and Faith Derren Brown (3 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4~5
WitchDocChris
View Profile
Inner circle
York, PA
2391 Posts

Profile of WitchDocChris
I am sorry, I just don't understand the amount of (what feels like) anger directed towards Derren?

For one, no one here has read the book, have we? So why even bother getting worked out about it possibly being a self-help book? (Which it most likely isn't). The only thing I've seen is the title, and Derren quoting philosophers in relation to his work on the book. That coupled with his previous statements of not wanting to write a self-help book tells me it's probably more a philosophy book - which is more in line with Derren's writing anyway.

Two, you claim that the book is going to sell well because he's geared himself as a psychological person. Or, maybe, the book is going to sell well because Derren is a famous and popular performer and personality. That's what having fans means - they support you and they buy the products you put out. People who enjoy his work, such as myself, will purchase the book simply because he wrote it. If it turns out to be crap, then fewer people will be likely to purchase a future book, but other than that - that's what fans do.

Three, so say Derren wrote some exercises that have helped him achieve happiness. Where's the harm in that? What qualifications does one require to express one's opinion, or to talk about the things that have helped them in life?

Four, what approval does Derren need from the magician community? While he has received plenty of support, he's also gotten plenty of vitriol directed his way. He is one of the most successful magic entertainers in the world, worth millions and with several prestigious entertainment awards under his belt. And, to top that off, he hasn't turned into a raging egomaniac from what I can tell, unlike certain other wealthy magicians. Seems alright in my book.
Christopher
Witch Doctor

Psycho Seance book: https://tinyurl.com/y873bbr4
IAIN
View Profile
Eternal Order
england
18581 Posts

Profile of IAIN
He requires no approval, and for me at least - its not anger or rage - its just my own line of logic I'm following...and I am allowed my opinion too, just as you are!

that's ok isn't it? if not, why not?

for me, he has been very vocal about certain things, and made certain stands - and good on him for doing so, however, I personally feel that because of those things he's said, and some of his specials - I feel that his brand is so strong, and those that truly believe are also so strong, that when he releases anything like this, no matter the intent, it encourages certain beliefs (the beliefs he has said throughout he would never want people to have nor encourage)...

so yeah, re-read what I've just typed in a calm tone of voice, cos that's how I've written it (no angry sounding words - I checked!)...that's what I personally think... so even if its about some simple exercises, then his exercises are no better or worse than all the others already out there - so the only difference is that "because its derren, and we love derren because he is a mind-mongerer, a master of psychology and influence, so it MUST be true!"

the legend of the old witch-doctor and all that... Smile
IAIN
View Profile
Eternal Order
england
18581 Posts

Profile of IAIN
Oh and as for giving advice without qualifications, don't get me started 😃
SimonG-97
View Profile
Special user
507 Posts

Profile of SimonG-97
No anger from me, just confusion. It feels slightly hypocritical of Derren to release a book knowing how people will perceive it with his image of "psychological guru". There's no two ways about it , he is a mentalist, not a psychologist. He appears to be a psychologist through his mentalism, and that will ultimately help him sell the book. Nothing overly wrong with it, but it is very hard to listen to people talk about what a great psychologist he is. Now because of that it will ultimately help sales and everything as said before.

I have a friend studying psychology at university, she genuinely believes Derren is a psychological expert. This is a big part of why ANYTHING Derfen does sells. Yes, it'll sell because he is famous and has fans, but he has those fans because of what a great, entertaining "magician and psychologist" he is. Do you see what I mean?
RNK
View Profile
Inner circle
4711 Posts

Profile of RNK
Quote:
On Jul 21, 2016, IAIN wrote:
Oh and as for giving advice without qualifications, don't get me started 😃



Totally agree! Not very ethical or smart.
FJR
View Profile
Regular user
London
129 Posts

Profile of FJR
Yes, the new book is Philosophy-based it would seeem from initial comments. After all, the subject of happiness has been the purview of Philosophy for a couple of thousand years. Psychology is merely a very young, but informative, child of Philosophy (about 120 years)!
Which, as a Philosophy Teacher, I'm very pleased with! If our most esteemed comrade-in-magic gives Philosophy and injection of popularity for a while, for certain people, then this is all to the good.

And for what it's worth, while I recognise some of the criticisms above of Mr Brown come from a sincere place, I think they are misguided and confuse him very profoundly with the charlatans and balderdash-merchants he is at pains to highlight as the real enemy (of truth and reason). The 'Fear and Faith' series was a good high-profile attempt to win people away from seductive but irrational and destructive forms of reasoning, as well as the resultant odd and damaging beliefs about the nature of reality which these forms of reasnoning perpetuate. He has done a good deal to make the world a somewhat better place, through showing up poor/fallacious forms of reasoning and belief-formation, through his highly entertaining shows, much more than most of us have done I am pretty sure.

Best,
Francis
Flaneur / Gentleman Amateur
Member of the I.B.M - Ring 25
IAIN
View Profile
Eternal Order
england
18581 Posts

Profile of IAIN
Quote:
On Jul 23, 2016, FJR wrote:
...as well as the resultant odd and damaging beliefs about the nature of reality which these forms of reasnoning perpetuate. He has done a good deal to make the world a somewhat better place, through showing up poor/fallacious forms of reasoning...


well, I guess it could be debated what is 'reality', and would also think its debatable as to whether he's "done a good deal to make the world a somewhat better place" too...how do we measure that exactly? Smile

regardless - it will be interesting to see what his disclaimers are...

...maybe happiness is transient and its more about contentment?
FJR
View Profile
Regular user
London
129 Posts

Profile of FJR
Yes, pretty much as expected regarding the scepticism about the 'self-help' brigade and so on. Still glad to see he's reading 'the good stuff', i.e. the Philosophers who've been writing about this topic for an aeon:

"Derren explores the history and philosophy of happiness..."

More connections made between Philosophy and Magic/Mentalism please!

(One thinks immediately, for example, of the excellent Dr Todd L)

Best,
Francis
Flaneur / Gentleman Amateur
Member of the I.B.M - Ring 25
TheJester
View Profile
New user
Santiago, Chile
2 Posts

Profile of TheJester
I quite like the approach Derren shows in chapters like this one. Probably I am part of a the group of people that are more susceptible to believe in this kind of physiologic gurus, despite consider me a skeptical.

I know that they do not play in the same league, but it reminds me of Alejandro Jodorowsky. He uses the power of mind/subconscious/shamanism to achieve self-healing, qualifying as pseudo-science/charlatanry (he calls it Psychomagic). I like to thing of it as some kind of art that can be useful for self-discovery or to practice parallel thinking. Sadly, the vast majority of people that buy his books are searching for a new religion.
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Fear and Faith Derren Brown (3 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4~5
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2020 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.16 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL