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TonyB2009
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John, I suspect that you have not done stage hypnosis shows (my apologies if I am wrong). Abreactions are not a feature of stage work.

"Walk up to a kid and tell them to think of a bad memory." No stage hypnotist ever does that.

We are not playing with people's minds. We are doing comedy stage shows. That have nothing whatsoever to do with hypnosis as you understand it. There is no danger to people's psyches.

If, after fifteen years of doing this, I am wrong (and I very much doubt it) all of us who do shows are well able to handle any problems that might arise.
TonyB2009
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John, I suspect that you have not done stage hypnosis shows (my apologies if I am wrong). Abreactions are not a feature of stage work.

"Walk up to a kid and tell them to think of a bad memory." No stage hypnotist ever does that.

We are not playing with people's minds. We are doing comedy stage shows. That have nothing whatsoever to do with hypnosis as you understand it. There is no danger to people's psyches.

If, after fifteen years of doing this, I am wrong (and I very much doubt it) all of us who do shows are well able to handle any problems that might arise.
Johannes L.
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I've done what we in my country calls estrad-hypnosis - basically the same deal, yet I do not say that I will walk up to a child and tell him or her to think of a bad memory. I do not think that any hypnotist in the world would do that. What I tried to point out is that if a child hears the word "hypnosis" or "there is a hypnotist here", they will go all in. I've experienced this. They want to get hypnotized. Fine, now. They are willing to do anything you say, you could even tell a child to think of a bad memory. They most likely will do it. If you do a hypnosis show with children as subjects and you just do a cold or warm routine - or that a object they are holding onto raise in temperature til an extent that they would want to drop the item. You don't know if they have a bad memory of getting burned on a plate or whatever. They do not think like adults and draws a line between the two things, they rather link things together to create a picture of the reality.

It is hard for me to explain. I hope you understand my thought and that you don't read it all to literally.

- John.
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TonyB2009
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I understand your thought, John. I just don't accept it. I don't believe that kids are that psychologically vulnerable. If they are treated with respect a hypnosis show is far less dangerous than a sarcastic teacher, an over eager sports coach, or a distant parent. And no more dangerous than any other comedy show they might attend or participate in.
Dannydoyle
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Mostly people who do not find what they are looking for are not fans of academia.
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Johannes L.
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Quote:
On 2014-01-27 21:06, TonyB2009 wrote:
I understand your thought, John. I just don't accept it. I don't believe that kids are that psychologically vulnerable. If they are treated with respect a hypnosis show is far less dangerous than a sarcastic teacher, an over eager sports coach, or a distant parent. And no more dangerous than any other comedy show they might attend or participate in.


Believe me - I do not see any harm in hypnosis.

Example; imagine a scary clown statue. Let's say that statue is what we call hypnosis. The statue is not dangerous at all. It just stands there.

Yet a child can come and look at it and be scared, frightened. It is not dangerous but can affect the child emotionally.

See what I try to say?

What I tried to point out is that the common belief for children about hypnosis is that you become some kind of zombie who is controlled by the hypnotist. The child sees the hypnosis as something different than adults see it. If you tell them a spooky story they might actually believe it and dream nightmares about it. They are very open for suggestions. Of course there is a lot of other areas such as , distant parent, sports coaches; if they treat them badly they might trigger those emotions themselves. What I am trying to point out is that most people don't know what hypnosis is and can easily blame it for anything, especially parents if, something, completely unrelated to hypnosis happens to their child.

Some of the suggestions which the kid may act out because of standing on a stage, pressure, and simply that you tell him to feel, react and respond in specific way. They might as well (in their view) embarrass themselves because of their bad knowledge of hypnosis and that they actually believe that they are "under control". Which then can lead to bullying, bad self-esteem and so forth.

- John.
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TonyB2009
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I can see your point about people blaming hypnosis for subsequent problems. That has happened to most of us. Objectively I don't believe that hypnosis (at least on stage) represents a real danger to anyone, but I can see how it could be seen as a danger.

One solution is to educate people in the pretalk, so that they know what hypnosis does, and what it does not, do.
Pakar Ilusi
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Kids love those pseudo hypnosis stuff, they really do.

And all those magnetic finger-type suggestion tests, they love it!

That "arm with balloon attached lifting" works like a charm with them, more so than with adults, from my experience... Smile
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
TerryMc
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I believe it's a clear decision.
If its against the law in your country don't do it.
From an ethical point of view.
They are children.
Hypnosis is an altered state of awareness where the critical faculty is reduced therefor making the individual more susceptible to suggestion.
When an adult agrees to become a subject they are making an adult decision.
(The emphasis is in the term "adult"). Therefor they make an adult calculation based on their mature knowledge of Risk v Consequence, and accept both risk and the consequences.
A child is not mature enough to enter into such an adult contract.
The law does not allow them to vote, or sign business contracts for good reason.
The hypnotist knows the manipulation of language that allows the subject to believe that their actions on stage are normal. The child would not generally have the intellectually capacity to understand this in the timescale allowed at a stage show.
My view isn't based on a narrow understanding of stage hypnosis and enjoyment. It is based on a wide knowledge of Risk v Consequences and how to manipulate language .
There is always the risk of abreaction
There is always the risk of copycat activity post show by young inexperienced kids who don't have the same restrictions or ethics as the responsible stage hypnotist.
We must remember that if one child believes another child can hypnotise them, then. It will happen via self hypnosis or simple compliance.
There is always a risk of litigation
It also isn't fair. If the adults say its ok the the child will take their lead. Pier pressure is strong enough without the a responsible adult joining in with encouragement.
In my opinion it's just not worth it.
Regards
mindpunisher
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Quote:
On 2014-01-27 21:24, Dannydoyle wrote:
Mostly people who do not find what they are looking for are not fans of academia.


I can find what I am looking for academics are still using abreactions and the uncovering of repressed memories. You find opposing sides in just about every area when it comes to hypnosis and academics. I am looking for practical skills knowledge that allows to me create something useful. You are correct there though you won't find that in academia. By the way I have two university degrees. Waste of 8 years of my life.

But I get my experience from the real world. Emotional baggage exists. If my volunteers can have complete amnesia after two hours on stage (and I have done follow ups with many months later who still can't remember a thing then to me it doesn't take much of a leap to realize amnesia can happen with unpleasant events.

In my experience having done years of therapy people do remember things they have forgot that were the start of their problem. Its no big deal its quite common. How ever associating someone into that memory just adds another layer to the gestalt of emotion ( baggage)it usually doesn't release it. that's basically what an abreaction is.That why most people who go into counseling do so for years with no resolution of their problem. In most cases it gets worse. However at least in the UK the medical profession will refer to counseling. My sceptical mind thinks it may be because they are then able to prescribe medication that they would not otherwise be able to do with a solution that resolved the problem quicker.

I find Tony's comments illogical. Children are already suggestible because their minds aren't fully formed. Making them even more suggestible opens them up to being more vulnerable. Terry'a post above is pretty accurate if you ask me.
TonyB2009
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Terry, I disagree. There is no danger of abreaction in a stage show. It just doesn't happen.

As for kids being more suggestible, of course they are. They are also more prone to letting their hair down and going with the flow. That's a condition of childhood.

I never mix adults and kids in a show. If it is a family show there is an over sixteen rule, and for a more adult show, an over eighteen rule. But I have no qualms about doing a hypnosis show for kids, with all kid volunteers. I have not done many, but have no ethical problems with those I have done, or those I may do in the future.
mindpunisher
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Ive seen an abreaction on stage and the show was cut short. Stupid routine anyway. It was removed from the next show completely. It was an irish hypnotist too what was his name again? it will come to me. And there was an english hypnotist successfully sued for causing an abreaction that made someone depressed and "suicidal". It is rare but it can happen.

Yes kids are open to suggestion. And a suggestion in the wrong place or delivered carelessly could cause problems.

Tony you don't have a problem with driving without a license or any proper tuition so I think your point of view is not the norm!

you don't need to do a hypnosis show for kids anyway they are already suggestible and will have a great time with silly jokes and lame magic. Why would you even bother?
TonyB2009
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Quote:
On 2014-01-28 07:57, mindpunisher wrote:
you don't need to do a hypnosis show for kids anyway they are already suggestible and will have a great time with silly jokes and lame magic. Why would you even bother?

Because a convent of nuns asked me. And we obey the penguins.

The Irish hypnotist you mentioned never hypnotised anyone in his career. He was a master at cueing the subjects. So if there was an abreaction, that had nothing to do with hypnosis, as there was no hypnosis present.

I have seen him do that routine a number of times. There is always a strong and unexpected emotional response, because that is what he whispers to them off mike. I did not see the show you are talking about, and if you say that it was more than that, I will not dispute it. You know what you are talking about. But the man does play for an extreme emotional response in that routine.

It was a regression. Did the subject end up in the trenches during the war? Just curious.
Dannydoyle
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Believe urban legends and perpetuate them all you like. It will keep stunting the art.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Johannes L.
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Are you sure a child will understand the explanation of hypnosis until an extent that he no longer have the already made up, fantast pictures of what hypnosis is?
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TonyB2009
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It doesn't matter if the child understands, just so long as his parent or guardian understands. Nothing special happens on stage, and if there is any damage afterwards, it is not the hypnotist's fault.

I remember a guy having a huge epileptic fit after one of my shows. Everyone blamed me. The problem was he was on strong medication, came off the stage, and had a beer. The beer screwed him, not me. Hypnosis poses no real danger, only imagined ones. That is the message. Let the parents know that clearly, and keep any frivolous lawsuits away!
Johannes L.
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How do you feel about hypnotizing tipsy people? Do you do it? I'm just curious. If they drink after the hypnosis and get drunk, does stupid decision, they can still blame hypnosis. For unexperienced people who see hypnosis as "mind control" and not something natural, they may blame everything on it.

I guess informing is the best way to approach this and rule out a potential blame.
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Pakar Ilusi
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There are NO LAWS in my country regarding Hypnosis in performances.

Plus, it's safer to hypnotise kids than tipsy adults imho...
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
Johannes L.
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Quote:
On 2014-01-28 10:41, Pakar Ilusi wrote:
There are NO LAWS in my country regarding Hypnosis in performances.

Plus, it's safer to hypnotise kids than tipsy adults imho...


Yet, if a child would fall of the stage and hurt himself - the blame would in an instant strike hypnosis as the reason for the fall.

If you have a tipsy adult - the logic would rather strike the alcohol.
The Rain Man Glimpse

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Dannydoyle
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Yes hypnosis as we understood it in the 1920s. Hhhh scary stuff!
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
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