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Johannes L.
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On 2014-01-28 11:38, Dannydoyle wrote:
Yes hypnosis as we understood it in the 1920s. Hhhh scary stuff!


I tell you. The majority of people I ask; "what are your belief regarding hypnosis" most of them claim it is "mind control" and not something natural, I often even hear people say that it is a technique to manipulate the subconsciousness of a person making them not know what is going on.
The Rain Man Glimpse

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Dannydoyle
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Ever wonder why? How about because the people who supposedly know believe 1920s nonsense?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TerryMc
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Hi Tony
The adults I was referring to would be the hypnotis and in your case the teachers(Nuns)
Hi Danny
I would also dispute the reference to urban legends restricting "us" the things that will restrict the use of hypnosis will be :
Withdrawal of licence
Litigation
No insurance
The recognition that, yip it can have a detrimental effect when it goes wrong
With regards to the man with epilepsy. Surely that would be part of a pre induction conversation allbeit covert and subtle.
I promis it is not my aim to convert. Simply to discuss.
Debate will enlighten.
Thanks Mind
Regards
Dannydoyle
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Ignorance is restricting. More than any legislation.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TonyB2009
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Terry, my pretalk is brief. But I make it very clear that certain classes of people (bad backs, heart condition, pregnant, epileptic, schizophrenic, ****ed or high) do not join me on stage.

I will accept someone with a few pints in them, but once they pass beyond merry they are no use or interest to me. Anyone who is high gets thrown off the stage immediately. Same with my magic shows. That has nothing to do with hypnosis. That is merely stage management.
Pakar Ilusi
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Quote:
On 2014-01-28 11:10, John Linden wrote:
Quote:
On 2014-01-28 10:41, Pakar Ilusi wrote:
There are NO LAWS in my country regarding Hypnosis in performances.

Plus, it's safer to hypnotise kids than tipsy adults imho...


Yet, if a child would fall of the stage and hurt himself - the blame would in an instant strike hypnosis as the reason for the fall.

If you have a tipsy adult - the logic would rather strike the alcohol.


I only do eyes open suggestion based effects.

Sorry, but honestly I believe that the priority is not in maintaining hypnosis's good name in not having a child, or any audience member for that matter, fall off the stage...

The priority is their safety and well being.

People here in my country already think suggestion work and hypnosis is the work of Satan without me ever doing anything bad anyway.
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
newcomer
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I am new to this site but have been doing stage hypnosis for a very long time. For the record the Irish hypnotist that Tony refers to is very much against hypnotising children on stage. Ask him and see. I know him personally and he told me that it is "asking for trouble" and I agree with him. I also agree with Mr Linden. I am very much against hypnotising children on stage. I have no idea if it is harmful to the child as claimed but I do feel that it is the negative PERCEPTION that should be taken into account. It looks bad and gives a very bad impression. It is completely illegal in the UK and for good reason. There is enough negative publicity surrounding stage hypnosis without adding further fuel to the flames. I also agree with Corinda's statement in the 13 Steps that the words "children" and "hypnosis" should never be seen within a mile of each other. He was referring to jack-of-all-trades business cards rather than anything else but I do agree with the sentiment.
Dannydoyle
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Mark you are right it is not a great perception.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
newcomer
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Another reason was pointed out by Ormond McGill. He felt that it lowered the importance of your show. He said that adults would be uncomfortable doing things that kids were doing. Oddly enough he wrote a whole chapter in one of his books on hypnotising children but I know in his introductory talk he always discouraged them from coming on stage. He did state that he thought it was OK if ALL the subjects on stage were children but I would vociferously disagree with him there. It really is asking for trouble. Double trouble in fact.

I did once get booked for a hypnosis show for kids only. It was a children's camp. The kids were aged 5 to 10. I tried to turn it down but in the end agreed to do it providing only camp counsellors came on stage. These were people in their late teens and early twenties. So the entire audience was kids and the subjects were young adults! To my surprise it went terrifically well! The only problem I had was keeping the kids quiet during the induction. I actually had to use kid show magic techniques in order to do it!
TonyB2009
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Newcomer, if you had done a show with the kids as volunteers it would have gone very well too. I never mix both (hypnosis or non-hypnosis shows) but if you use kids only you get a great show.
newcomer
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Tony. The kids camp was not in Ireland where you can get away with anything. It was in a far stricter country where at worst I might have ended up in jail or at best the camp would have been sued by angry parents. The camp counsellors were the perfect age group. As you well know college or university students make the easiest subjects. They were of this age group.
Johannes L.
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Children are the best actors, I don't see why only saying, "pretend you are a police officer or scientist" won't do.

They don't have to be hypnotized to be open for suggestions.

- John.
The Rain Man Glimpse

Effect: The mentalist memorize any kind of information in less than a second. $5
mindpunisher
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Quote:
On 2014-01-28 09:32, Dannydoyle wrote:
Believe urban legends and perpetuate them all you like. It will keep stunting the art.


Did you actually take time to look at that link Danny? It took me a mins to find and its a research paper on the use of abreactions as a theraputic tool used by psychiatrists today. PSYCHIATRISTS ACADEMICS!

Why is it such a large stretch to accept some people may have amnesia for unpleasant or even good memories? When just about every show I have ever done there has been one or two people leave stage with amnesia? I believe hypnosis on stage is just an "amplified" version of how the mind works on a daily basis. What can happen on stage happens off the stage its just not as obvious.

I don't have the time or motivation but a simple search you will find dozens of examples where academics so called prominent psychiatric researchers use and accept abreaction as genuine phenomena. Most psychiatrists use drugs to relax the patient access the memories. Mental relaxation through hypnosis has also and still is used today. But as you will see the following link there is plenty of psychiatric who believe in the use of abreaction. ACADEMICS. Now I am sure you can find research that proves they don't exist. that's my point. Academia is not the ultimate authority.

http://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?q=ab......IQgQMwAA

Tony the hypnotist Im talking about was a hypnotist and he did a hypnosis show. He was also careless and sent them all away at the end into the street without removing the suggestions. They piled onto the streets running after their little leprechauns. I went to both shpows. He really panicked on stage when he lost control of the volunteer. She really freaked out.

Although not a huge amount of money in damages it has been recognized in a court of law that abreactions do in fact exist and that regression on stage is negligent. Its also now against the guidelines for obtaining a license or validating insurance.


These are not urban myths.
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Ah yes! The leprechauns! I remember he used to tell the punters to go down to the police station and complain that they lost their leprechauns! I don't know if any of them did but I expect it did happen on occasion. Great way of getting publicity. He got that routine from Paul Goldin who created a sensation with it. In fact Paul used to create great traffic jams with it and the police asked him not to do it any more!

Both men were subjected to great criticism for not removing the suggestions. But I suppose they figured that hypnosis didn't exist in the first place so nobody was hypnotised anyway. There was an Irish surgeon turned hypnotherapist named Jack Gibson who had been feuding for years with Paul Goldin over this type of thing. In his book, "Life and Times of an Irish Hypnotherapist" he complains, "I once saw a young man chasing a bus, oblivious to every thought but that of catching the leprechaun which he believed to be his and which he had seen in a visual hallucination inside the bus."

I suspect the key to avoiding abreactions is not to believe in them in the first place. I have never had anything like that happen to me in hundreds of performances since 1993. Having said that I will probably get half a dozen of them in the next month or so!
TonyB2009
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On 2014-01-29 16:33, John Linden wrote:
Children are the best actors, I don't see why only saying, "pretend you are a police officer or scientist" won't do.

They don't have to be hypnotized to be open for suggestions.

- John.

You have just described a hypnosis show. Adult or kids.

MP, as you saw two shows from the same guy, I accept what you say about him losing control. Not a good situation. The man in question is a tremendous showman, and that bit about chasing leprechauns is a classic. I did it once, and a guy did go to the cops to report his little creature missing. So I have not done it since. I still end with a few post-hypnotics, but now I say that as soon as they hit the air outside the venue, all suggestions will be cancelled. Student audiences do not like this compromise, but to hell with them. The show is over by that stage anyway.
mindpunisher
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Tony it seems that Ireland is a planet in its own universe! If someone goes and reports it to the cops then surely how can you say its just acting or pretending? There was a report once in Scotland where someone was told they were a famous stripper and were sent into the audience to give autographs. The suggestions weren't removed and after the show a worried partner took his wife tro the hospital as she was still trying to give everyone her autograph on the way home. The police got involved they tracked down the hypnotist by phone and he removed the suggestions over the phone.

I don't know how accurate the report was or how truthful but it was on the news.

I have never had anyone abreact on stage that I am aware of. Abreactions are not very useful in therapy either they just make the problem worse. However I am aware that its possible. The definition of abreactions is acting out saying the words etc of a past memory with the idea it releases the emotion that's attached. It just adds another layer of emotion to the "gestalt" or baggage in layman terms. The thing is you don't really have to act it out just accessing a memory can cause the experience of being overwhelmed by the emotion. These people have unresolved issues anyway, Its not the hypnosis that could cause the problem its just that it could aggravate what is already there.
TerryMc
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Hi all.
Looks like Tony is not for changing.
I am however heartened by the by the fact that those in favour appear less enthusiastic.
I'm one of that happy band of therapists who feel that an abreaction experienced in the proper environment can be of great benefit to the individual.
The situation repressed at say, an early period in life can now be interrogated in the present and possibly with adult insight which may lead to a dissolving of symptoms.
Just an opinion.
But I don't wish to alter the direction of this extremely important thread.
The adult on stage might just view this as a bit wierd and dismiss it, but once again I believe a child could be evtreamly confused and distressed.
Don't read this post in isolation. I have stated other objections.
Regards
mindpunisher
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Terry it is much more useful quicker and less stressful to keep the client dissociated from the memory and work on the structure not the content. There are even techniques that don't require them to even know what the memory is. This means a resolution to the problem can be achieved very quicky. A resolution meaning that the emotional charge can be released 100% with no need for any insights. Insights just give someone more reasons to have the problem in most cases. I don't think I have ever had a client who ever had any resolved issues from traditional counseling before contacting me.

If you want some details pm me.
TonyB2009
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Terry, you keep bringing up abreactions. What do they have to do with stage work? They are a feature of therapy, not stage work. None of us use abreactions in any way. I fail to see how they bear on the question of working with children on a stage.

I have seen plenty of groundless fears expressed here, but no solid reason for not working with children, beyond the fact that most of you find it distasteful. Fine. I have only been asked a handful of times, but when I am asked next (May, as it turns out) I will do the show with relish. It will be completely different from my adult show, and it will go down well, and it will do no harm to the participants. Of that I am certain.
TerryMc
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Hi Tony
Abreaction is not a "feature" of therapy. It's a consequence of the process of recalling past events within and out with the hypnotic state.
Abreaction is always a potential consequence of the hypnotic state ( I am aware that you have doubts as to it being a state at all )
As a therapist I don't use abreaction. "It happens". The individual freely recalls incidents from their past. (They are not directed to specific incidents. The process is termed "free association" ) parts of each memory links to a subsequent memory which is then recalled. When I say recalled I mean "relived" at a physical, mental and emotional level. As in remembering being at a loved ones funeral. The individual can become extremely sad, can feel a cold shiver and begin to cry as the did on that day ( its not just detail. It is a real experience) . It's similar to hearing a song on the radio where just hearing it, can take you back to a time when the world was a happier place and the only worry you had was weather your hair looked ok.
As I said please don't read any of my posts in isolation I have many concerns about the use of children in hypnosis for entertainment .
Tony when I am expressing my view. It is In the context of passing on information regarding the hypnotic state and again the "state" is not location sensitive. If you are hypnotised in the dentist chair, therapist chair or on stage it's all the same state "the hypnotic state"
It's like being drunk: At a party, at work, or driving your car. It's all just drunk.

I wish you every success in all that you do and sincerely hope that if you do continue to use children in your hypnotic show that nothing does happen to cause you or they, distress.
And each time you do it with no I'll effects feel free to mail me with "I told you so"
All the best
Hi mind I will pm you
Regards
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