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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Latest and Greatest? » » Whispering Die by Richard Osterlind » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (2 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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saysold1
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The performance ideas would also I think ne useful for people like me using ProMystic's MD or MD mini.

So as usual I agree with Ustaad Smile

The biggest mistake MD userts make is simply and quickly guessing the die face chosen. It is the subtleties of the performance and reveal which make any effect like this more powerful.

WD is definitely on my list. Gotta learn from the pro.
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Platt
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Richard makes the finest products and gives some of the best instruction in all of magic. So this absolutely not a criticism of him or the product. Merely a question. Is this one of those effects where technology trumps all? I don't own MD, but price aside, it's hard to imagine that a 'divine the die number' effect could get any cleaner and fairer than the ones that use electronics.. As stated, there's more to a trick then the mere workings. But hypothetically speaking, routines being equal, and price aside, does technology win here?
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Robert M
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I don't think this is going to replace my Promystic RD or MD, but it looks very nice. I ordered one, as well.

Robert
RNK
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Quote:
On 2012-11-16 10:14, Platt wrote:
Richard makes the finest products and gives some of the best instruction in all of magic. So this absolutely not a criticism of him or the product. Merely a question. Is this one of those effects where technology trumps all? I don't own MD, but price aside, it's hard to imagine that a 'divine the die number' effect could get any cleaner and fairer than the ones that use electronics.. As stated, there's more to a trick then the mere workings. But hypothetically speaking, routines being equal, and price aside, does technology win here?


Advantages of Electronics: Hands off divination
Disadvantages of Electronics: Power failure

Advantages of Non-Electronics: No chance of power failure
Disadvatages of non-electronics: Hands on divination
Ustaad
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Richard, thank you so much for your reply.

I totally agree with Jamie Ferguson and I quote:

Quote:
On 2012-11-16 08:45, Jamie Ferguson wrote:

Richard, that's why -

* I'm going to buy this, for your thinking.

* You could take almost any trick and elevate it to miracle class.



And now I need to get this sooner rather than later. Smile

Smile
P.S. Most great minds in mentalism prefer simple & innocent looking props devoid of any high end technology. They certainly know how to convert a simple trick into a miracle. You don't agree with me? Ok, checkout 'Annemann's Practical Mental Effects' DVD series by Richard Osterlind. The DVD series will change your thinking & belief.
MAGIC is a SECRET, without the SECRET, there is no MAGIC.
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C. Clarke.
saysold1
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To answer - I think MD (or mini) is the best die divination out there - period. Those who own it also know about another possibility that is even more organic.

But...simple props are best. Simple methods are also best.

I hope I'm not being disrespectful by bringing MD up on Richard's thread, but someone was bound to discuss it since its the elephant in the room.

But the price of admission here is literally $450 less than your basic MD kit. And Richard's looks like a showpiece - and the kicker for me is to see the DVD of Richard's performance ideas.

I love simple organic stuff as much or more than the tech sometimes. So I can see many happy MD owners like me grabbing this baby too.
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Jamie Ferguson
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MD vs WD?

At the end of the day the spec will remember the effect as being the same. You divined a number on a concealed die

I'm sure Richard's touches will make WD as strong, if not stronger, than MD. Smile

Also, I wouldn't be as bothered giving a spec the less expensive prop to handle, especially if they happen to drop it in their drink by accident!
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Ustaad
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Quote:
On 2012-11-16 11:42, Jamie Ferguson wrote:

MD vs WD?


A friend asked me the same question through PM. And this was my reply:-

Quote:
IMO to create a miracle it is not the kind/ type of prop that plays an important role but it is a well thought-out, synchronized and rehearsed plot that is responsible for the miracle to happen. Both, a simple or Hi-Tech prop can achieve the same result as far as the spectator is concerned. The spectator is not concerned about the mechanics of the prop but only the end result. However if one performs the same effects using two similar looking prop for the same audience, then an intelligent and involved audience will surely differentiate between a prop that is totally hands-on and the one which is hands-off - most will appreciate an effect that is totally hands-off. But if the two effects are performed in isolation then performance will play a big role in impressing the audience.

So IMO whether the prop is totally hands-off (i.e. electronic) or hands-on may or may not matter and will depend on the above situations. However, the suitability of a routine/effect will (and always) depend on the type of audience one is entertaining. Magic must be a source of pleasure and entertainment. The audience must go home happy and relaxed but at the same time they must also have something to think and wonder - How did he do that?
Smile


Back on topic please. Thank you.

Smile
MAGIC is a SECRET, without the SECRET, there is no MAGIC.
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C. Clarke.
lucavolpe
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I am glad I opened this thread! I admire Richard's thinking and as soon I saw this piece I knew was a killer effect!
Waiting mine now...
:)
magicinsight
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Quote:
On 2012-11-16 12:02, Ustaad wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-11-16 11:42, Jamie Ferguson wrote:

MD vs WD?


A friend asked me the same question through PM. And this was my reply:-

Quote:
IMO to create a miracle it is not the kind/ type of prop that plays an important role but it is a well thought-out, synchronized and rehearsed plot that is responsible for the miracle to happen. Both, a simple or Hi-Tech prop can achieve the same result as far as the spectator is concerned. The spectator is not concerned about the mechanics of the prop but only the end result. However if one performs the same effects using two similar looking prop for the same audience, then an intelligent and involved audience will surely differentiate between a prop that is totally hands-on and the one which is hands-off - most will appreciate an effect that is totally hands-off. But if the two effects are performed in isolation then performance will play a big role in impressing the audience.

So IMO whether the prop is totally hands-off (i.e. electronic) or hands-on may or may not matter and will depend on the above situations. However, the suitability of a routine/effect will (and always) depend on the type of audience one is entertaining. Magic must be a source of pleasure and entertainment. The audience must go home happy and relaxed but at the same time they must also have something to think and wonder - How did he do that?
Smile


Back on topic please. Thank you.

Smile


Ustaad,

Thank you for your reply my friend.

Michael
“Belief matters more than truth. Every moment, belief in imaginary things alters lives while truth sits unnoticed and waits.”
—Hakim, Loreweaver
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Looking forward to reviews ... looks and sounds wonderful Smile
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ALEXANDRE
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I am a Richard Osterlind fan and supporter (You, too, Jim).

I make money using some of his material and thinking (I also make friends, make laughter, make love, make miracles).

I ordered this beautiful piece as soon as I saw it was available.

Haven't see it in person yet, but I'm sure it's top-notch business.

If you can afford one, get one.
Richard Osterlind
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Let me say a big “Thank You” for all those who have so much confidence in our products they are ordering the new Whispering Die. And let me tell you how much I appreciate all the above comments about myself personally and our Osterlind Mysteries products. Again – thank you!

I don’t belong to or read many forums. Besides The Magic Café, there is only one other I take part in. But some have written to me saying so and so said this or is asking this or that question. Many of those concerns are the same ones being voiced here. Since most people read the Café I thought I would address them all in one place. Hopefully that will get the message to those other forums as well.

First, let me tell you that this project has been in the works for over two years. There was a lot of background work that had to be done before we even started. I won’t bother you with that, but I will say it was quite complicated and I am thrilled that we are finally here. I think this is one of our best products ever and I have complete confidence that everyone will be happy with both the apparatus and the secret.

Now, let me say again, the die is a REAL casino die. It is not simply a casino-like die; it is an actual casino die. Although very uncommon, some casinos have used white dice on their crap tables. Frankly, we had originally intended to use the more common red die, but we thought it cheapened the look of the outfit, especially considering the craftsmanship of the box. You can buy a “stick” of those red dice from gaming houses for about $20. They usually have serial numbers on them. Ours were much more expensive and hard to get, especially without that number. In point of fact, we had to delay putting out the effect until the supplier could get enough of these dice in stock for us. But look; if anyone doesn’t like the white die, they can use any casino die they want! The die is ordinary. Although a standard casino die is 19mm, even a smaller one, such as 15mm, will work. As a matter of fact, we designed the box, both the height and opening, to be of such a size to accommodate almost any size die.

Some have asked if this is just a good looking toy or a real prop to be used in paying shows. Let me assure you, I used my box for over 20 years at insurance conventions around the world, from the huge RIMs convention held each year throughout the United States, CRIMs in every province in Canada and those held in Monte Carlo. I always have it in my case, it is always a staple in my performances and I have used it consistently in thousands of shows. I mix it in with my metal bending, billet work and other standard mentalism which I do in these type venues. In other words, it is far from being a novelty that a real pro would not use!

For those who imply that good-looking or manufactured props don’t belong in a mentalism show, may I direct you to the work of Dr. Jaks who used incredible looking, specialized props in his “book” for some of the most elite patrons in the world. The use of finely made props for a specific purpose in mentalism has always been the norm, not a departure from purism. The mentalist is there to do a show and is expected to have the tools to do his work with.

Frankly, pontification about what mentalism “props” are appropriate for professional performances is usually hatched by arm chair specialists, some of whom have credentials that go way beyond their real world history and, even though they may have made a name for themselves in the fraternity, have never stood in front of a audience outside of those made up of their peers. Like those who constantly harangue the use of playing cards in mentalism, or of mixing magic with mentalism, many “experts” get their diplomas from other, similar “experts!”

Finally, I know there are electronic versions of different die effects. Even though that is not my thing, I know they can be tremendously successful. But I have personally witnessed one go real bad and have heard numerous reports of this happening to others. I, personally, always worry about what happens to delicate pieces of equipment when on airplanes. But that is just my thing.

I will say, however, that one has to take into account what the effect is. To automatically assume that a hands-off handling is superior in every situation is not looking at the whole premise. In the case of the Whispering Die, you are supposedly listening to the sound of the die. It is natural to take it into your hands and shake it. That is the effect!

And, as I have already mentioned, for the last phase, people won’t even remember you touched it. I am willing to wait until these boxes are in the hands of magicians and mentalists to get their feedback and tell me if I am right or wrong. I am that confident.

So again, excuse my rambling (I hope I didn't sound too harsh), but thank you again for all your support. It means a lot to me.

Richard
saysold1
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Thank you Richard - you are a generous man to share your wisdom and tools with the fraternity.

I have no doubt that this is a super product with a lot of great thinking behind it.

As far as the lectronic stuff, it certainly is not everyone's bag... a mentalist I know in Scandanavia (who I know you know well) won't touch the stuff. Different strokes.

I've always loved the beautifully crafted wood stuff as much as I like the Q type stuff being put out.

But it is the routining that I am especially looking forward to. Thanks again.
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Last time I played in a casino (or casino-like place) was 1985, in Korea. They used what looked like Yahtzee dice. In 2006 or 2007, we were assigned to Bullhead City, Arizona - across the river from Laughlin, Nevada. If we wanted to see a movie, we had to cross the bridge to Laughlin - and their movie theaters were upstairs from their casinos. The one where we saw "Spider-Man 3" was using white dice. The one where we saw "Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer" (Are you starting to see a pattern?) was using red dice. Some of Cherie's co-workers and patients, as well as older folks at a couple of places I performed, warned us against the place with the RED dice. "They don't use normal dice. They use those colored things, and they're gimmicked."

Real gamblers may recognize red dice as real casino dice, but everyone else thinks white dice are normal. And thus has Yahtzee created perceptions, I suppose?

Silly old perceptions!

*jeep! & God Bless
---Grandpa Chet
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As a satisfied and happy owner of the Devil Device, I can attest to the quality of work Richard's artisan does. I didn't hesitate when I received notice of the Whispering Die; I ordered it and the new ESP Deck and Booklet.

White is the perfect color for the bones. As Grandpa Chet says, it's what people expect.

Looking forward to receiving it.
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Die-Divination---i don't know whose version,but it was sold by pitchmen (on the streets)in India...for 3-4 US $ it was an excellent investment for a sneaky effect.The simple method was appreciated by the knowledgable folks.
Recently Charles Gaucci came down to India for a multi-city mentalism/magic lecture tour cum sight seeing visit.During lunch he demonstrated the same thing...but,BUT he did not have the box,he stood at a distance of less than 4 feet and he gave the die to other magi to cover with their hand...in their hands,keep it behind a prop and cover it.He did not tip the method...nor was it for sale !
He did not disclose anything about the origins all he gave away was a 'smile and a look with a raised eyebrow' (a trademark of Max Maaven) !
I am not sure if Osterlind's version is the same.
saysold1
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I would leave the speculation alone...

Best to remember "raised eyebrows"
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Jamie Ferguson
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Quote:
On 2012-11-17 01:02, mindshrink wrote:
Die-Divination---i don't know whose version,but it was sold by pitchmen (on the streets)in India...for 3-4 US $ it was an excellent investment for a sneaky effect.The simple method was appreciated by the knowledgable folks.
Recently Charles Gaucci came down to India for a multi-city mentalism/magic lecture tour cum sight seeing visit.During lunch he demonstrated the same thing...but,BUT he did not have the box,he stood at a distance of less than 4 feet and he gave the die to other magi to cover with their hand...in their hands,keep it behind a prop and cover it.He did not tip the method...nor was it for sale !
He did not disclose anything about the origins all he gave away was a 'smile and a look with a raised eyebrow' (a trademark of Max Maaven) !
I am not sure if Osterlind's version is the same.

No, Osterlind's is a different version entirely.

Charles' version is available, you just need to know what it is you're looking for and where to look Smile
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saysold1
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Quote:
On 2012-11-18 11:26, Jamie Ferguson wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-11-17 01:02, mindshrink wrote:
Die-Divination---i don't know whose version,but it was sold by pitchmen (on the streets)in India...for 3-4 US $ it was an excellent investment for a sneaky effect.The simple method was appreciated by the knowledgable folks.
Recently Charles Gaucci came down to India for a multi-city mentalism/magic lecture tour cum sight seeing visit.During lunch he demonstrated the same thing...but,BUT he did not have the box,he stood at a distance of less than 4 feet and he gave the die to other magi to cover with their hand...in their hands,keep it behind a prop and cover it.He did not tip the method...nor was it for sale !
He did not disclose anything about the origins all he gave away was a 'smile and a look with a raised eyebrow' (a trademark of Max Maaven) !
I am not sure if Osterlind's version is the same.

No, Osterlind's is a different version entirely.

Charles' version is available, you just need to know what it is you're looking for and where to look Smile


Moving along now Smile
Creator of The SvenPad Supreme(R) line of premium, made in the USA utility props. https://svenpads.com/
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