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acesover
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Landmark said: If you want workers with a vested interest in productivity then they should share profits and decision making.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

It is in just about every union template drafted even before negoations begin that unions shall not make management decisions. Unions shall not infringe on management rights. No company in their right mind would ever agree to let their employees and unions make management decisions.

I can just see a union agreeing to let a company tell them how to run their union.

Where in the name of God do you people come up with these ideas?
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
Tom Cutts
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Quote:
On 2012-12-02 20:55, acesover wrote:
No company in their right mind would ever agree to let their employees and unions make management decisions.
Have you ever read the Fish books or heard of that VERY effective management style?
Slide
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"Could you please show where a union has increased profit for a company on a product or an increase in profits for the companty in the long run. I would be interested in these facts of yours.
"

Where did I say it did.
JoeJoe
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Quote:
On 2012-12-02 21:25, Tom Cutts wrote:
Have you ever read the Fish books or heard of that VERY effective management style?


If it truly is a more effective management style, then it will be emulated and copied and stolen and used by other companies ... the same thing that happens when a great magic trick is invented. However ... not everyone agrees it is a more effective management style.

http://mutualist.blogspot.com/2007/01/fi......ess.html

-JoeJoe
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LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2012-12-02 20:26, Slide wrote:
If you have no experience, you can't have an intelligent discussion. That is just a fact. You have no way of knowing if a union makes things more productive or less. If it increases profits or lessens them. You don't even know what creates productivity gains, which have nothing to do with unions by the way.

You just don't know what you are talking about.


Can we add that only the lawyers here can speak intelligently about the law and only the climatologists can speak intelligently about global warming? Oh, and the politicians about politics?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
JoeJoe
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And only meteorologists can talk intelligently about the weather.

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tommy
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It helps when everyone understands everyone's objectives in an operation. The management, the workers and the customers.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
w_s_anderson
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Don't worry JoeJoe, about 487.3 pages back I left a post citing my personal experience with a union, how bad that particular union was, and how that union was doing a disservice to the community.........As I expected it went largely ignored.
Tom Cutts
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Quote:
On 2012-12-02 21:48, JoeJoe wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-12-02 21:25, Tom Cutts wrote:
Have you ever read the Fish books or heard of that VERY effective management style?


If it truly is a more effective management style, then it will be emulated and copied and stolen and used by other companies ... the same thing that happens when a great magic trick is invented. However ... not everyone agrees it is a more effective management style.

http://mutualist.blogspot.com/2007/01/fi......ess.html

-JoeJoe
All sorts of nonsense can be found and linked on the Internet. No surprise someone totally missed the actual point of the book, and then cherry picked to fit the agenda of their blog. Smile
JoeJoe
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Well like I said .... if it is truly more effective it will catch on ... otherwise, it will fall through the cracks. Smile

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JoeJoe
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Quote:
On 2012-12-03 01:06, w_s_anderson wrote:
Don't worry JoeJoe, about 487.3 pages back I left a post citing my personal experience with a union, how bad that particular union was, and how that union was doing a disservice to the community.........As I expected it went largely ignored.


I saw a post on the Café years ago about a magician that couldn't fire a union spotlight worker that would fall asleep and leave the spot on center stage the entire show. Unions protecting non-productive employees is one of the biggest problems with them.

-JoeJoe
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acesover
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Quote:
On 2012-12-02 21:25, Tom Cutts wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-12-02 20:55, acesover wrote:
No company in their right mind would ever agree to let their employees and unions make management decisions.
Have you ever read the Fish books or heard of that VERY effective management style?


To answer your question. Yea it is total BS.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
Slide
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"Unions protecting non-productive employees"

That is not a productivity issue. And there is incompetance at both the worker and management side.

Productivity has to do with the ratio of production vs costs to produce.
Tom Cutts
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Quote:
On 2012-12-03 11:10, acesover wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-12-02 21:25, Tom Cutts wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-12-02 20:55, acesover wrote:
No company in their right mind would ever agree to let their employees and unions make management decisions.
Have you ever read the Fish books or heard of that VERY effective management style?


To answer your question. Yea it is total BS.

Do you mean it failed at Pikes Fish Market?
JoeJoe
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Quote:
On 2012-12-03 11:42, Slide wrote:
Productivity has to do with the ratio of production vs costs to produce.


Yes .... employees are a cost, and when they cost more than they produce they are unproductive. Do you have a point to make??

-JoeJoe
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Slide
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"Yes .... employees are a cost, and when they cost more than they produce they are unproductive. Do you have a point to make??
"

My point is that you don't seem to know anything about business. You don't seem to understand what the term "productivity" refers to. It is like that Seinfeld when Kramer decides to go to work without being hired and his manager says to him "Its as if you have had no business training at all". When I read your posts, I get the same feeling.

Most productivity gains happen via technology more than anything else.
Slide
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BTW, manufacturing productivity has doubled over the last 20 years. Of course that means a lot of people are getting laid off. Higher productivity = more layoffs = higher unemployment.

So I guess the argument that the unions are decreasing productivity is just not true.
JoeJoe
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Everyone here knows the difference between a productive employee and a non-productive employee ... except maybe you. If you can't grasp the concept, then that is your problem - you continue to waste more and more of our time with this utter nonsense. Do you have anything of value to add to the conversation, or is your plan to continue to attack me??

Here is a clue for you ... I am speaking in English:

pro·duc·tive (pr-dktv, pr-) adj.
1. Producing or capable of producing.
2. Producing abundantly; fertile. See Synonyms at fertile.
3. Yielding favorable or useful results; constructive.
4. Economics Of or involved in the creation of goods and services to produce wealth or value.
5. Effective in achieving specified results; originative: policies productive of much harm.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/productive

-JoeJoe
Amazing JoeJoe on YouTube[url=https://www.youtube.com/user/AmazingJoeJoe]
Slide
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We are talking about productivity not the word productive. Why is THAT so hard for you to understand?

How do you explain that productivity has doubled over the last 20 years in manufacturing?

Please tell me how you are measuring productivity? how are you measuring the productivity of management?

I'm sorry you can't grasp the concept, but I tried to tell you earlier, you don't have the experience to understand what is being said when we talk about productivity.
Slide
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Here is the point: your claim is that unions have decreased manufacturing productivity. That is clearly not the case as productivity has doubled. so how can you make the case that productivity is down when in fact it is UP.
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