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Slide Special user 533 Posts |
"People that join and lean on unions to do their business are weak in mind and spirit.
Don't like the job? Get a new one, move, learn something else. No one owes you that job in that location at a set price." OR....stay and fight. My girlfriend started out as a telephone operator with Verizon. Same job her mother and grandmother had. When she joined, the good paying jobs at Verizon were only given to men. Then the union came in and she was able to get one of the jobs that before would have been denied to her and it was verizon's highest paying job. 27 years later she retired with a pension and full benefits. She would not have had any of those things if it hadn't been for the Union. I think if failed executives can have their golden parachutes, the working man can have his/her union. You get what you fight for. And on your own, you're toast. |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Old bakers never die, they just stop making dough.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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FatHatter Regular user I'm here you're there and that's that. 137 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-11-17 11:29, Slide wrote: Or she could have moved on, relied on herself, and not had to wait for a group to decide her fate. By your standards I'm toast but I can put whatever I decide on it whenever I want. Today I'll have strawberry jam and not have someone else decide for me to have blackberry which I can't stand. A person can fight on their own. |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
Quote:
On 20 k12-11-17 08:07, Woland wrote: See here, From your link: "Hostess was able to exit bankruptcy in 2009 for three reasons. The first was Ripplewood's equity infusion of $130 million in return for control of the company (it currently owns about two-thirds of the equity). The second reason: substantial concessions by the two big unions. Annual labor cost savings to the company were about $110 million; thousands of union members lost their jobs." And meanwhile management is giving themselves huge pay increases. Really, to blame the unions here is to call day for night.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-11-17 12:07, FatHatter wrote: Does this mean we can now disband the military?
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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Woland Special user 680 Posts |
Thanks for reading my links, landmark. Here's another one, from "teamster dot org" itself. It seems the Teamsters blame the Bakers:
Quote:
Teamster Hostess members were allowed to decide their fate by voting on the final offer conducted by a secret mail ballot. More than two-thirds of Hostess Teamsters members voted with 53 percent voting to approve the final offer. |
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magicalaurie Inner circle Ontario, Canada 2962 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-11-17 12:07, FatHatter wrote: I say the girl can choose to do what she wants to do. She chose how to fight and got the job she wanted. So she's not you, fathatter. She ended up with her choice of jam anyway. |
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stoneunhinged Inner circle 3067 Posts |
I myself blame Hostess.
Just saying. |
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magicalaurie Inner circle Ontario, Canada 2962 Posts |
Some have said many of the products are outdated, unhealthy, irrelevant, lack quality, etc. Which is why they've been going downhill the last while.
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Michael Baker Eternal Order Near a river in the Midwest 11172 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-11-17 12:19, magicalaurie wrote: But in the case with Hostess, it meant putting everyone else at the company, unassociated with THEIR union, IN a jam. They decided the fate of others... not cool. Assuming it's true what the bosses did, a protest was understandable. But, this decision meant screwing many other people out of job which they very well may have needed and wanted to keep because of that very need. Sounds like a lot of blackberry being spread where people may have wanted strawberry.
~michael baker
The Magic Company |
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magicalaurie Inner circle Ontario, Canada 2962 Posts |
Would they get strawberry from Hostess again? How many times they've filed for bankruptcy in the last decade? FWIW, in the post quoted, I was referencing the specific situation cited, not necessarily Hostess. Regarding Hostess: the brand wasn't being managed to be as marketable as it once was- customers don't want the stuff. I think that's the main problem, and I don't think that should be pinned on a union.
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stoneunhinged Inner circle 3067 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-11-17 12:30, magicalaurie wrote: Right. Here's my own take on it. Though I'm probably full of doodie. http://stoneunhinged.com/2012/11/17/hostess-rip-part-2/ |
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FatHatter Regular user I'm here you're there and that's that. 137 Posts |
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On 2012-11-17 12:19, magicalaurie wrote: Yep, no doubt she can choose as she wishes and I support that wholeheartedly. My point is she chose to wait and let someone else do for her, that is all. |
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FatHatter Regular user I'm here you're there and that's that. 137 Posts |
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On 2012-11-17 12:13, landmark wrote: My aren't you the clever one. |
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magicalaurie Inner circle Ontario, Canada 2962 Posts |
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My point is she chose to wait and let someone else do for her, that is all. Got that, FatHatter. And my point is, maybe she saw that as the most efficient way to achieve her goal, and maybe it was. And I don't think that makes her weak in mind or spirit. |
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FatHatter Regular user I'm here you're there and that's that. 137 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-11-17 13:46, magicalaurie wrote: Cool. That's where we differ. |
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magicalaurie Inner circle Ontario, Canada 2962 Posts |
Yes. I'll just add this to that: there's more than one way to...
skin a cat. |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-11-17 13:36, FatHatter wrote: Sorry for the sarcasm but really, your comment was kind of silly. People choose to do things in concert with others all the time for good reasons. It's not unreasonable nor cowardly to band with others when you are facing a more powerful and wealthier adversary.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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stoneunhinged Inner circle 3067 Posts |
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On 2012-11-17 14:25, magicalaurie wrote: Uh, let's hope Mary isn't reading this thread. |
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Slide Special user 533 Posts |
"Or she could have moved on, relied on herself, and not had to wait for a group to decide her fate. "
The union gave her the opportunity to choose her fate and the means to get there. She went through the education to be a technician. She went to pole climbing school (they actually have that), she became union stewart and learned how to defend union members against management. She did that on her own. The union gave her the opportunity to have the option of competing for a job that was not available to women. She was also a single mother raising 2 kids so she needed the work. So....yeah, hardly the kind of person that lets someone decide her fate. She retired on full pension at age 47 and spent the next few years backpacking in Southeast asia and living on a boat in the Caribbean. I hope you've done as well for yourself. "a person can fight on their own." And a person can lose. |
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