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danfreed Inner circle West Chester PA 1354 Posts |
Bill, thanks for the compliments. First, I didn't ask you to criticize me. Second, I am a kids entertainer - so I have a silly name that's easy to remember "The Amazing Spaghetti." The Great Zucchini is also a food name and he does extremely well with it. The only stuff I do for adults is caricatures, so then I use my real name and have 3 websites for that. And I have several websites, each with a different emphasis or wording, I just don't list them here. And I know I'm complaining, but hey, a guy's allowed to vent once in a while. I never said I can't do what I want here, I just said it's harder in this market than my previous market - takes more effort and more traveling out of the city. I'm not aggressively marketing myself right now due to some health issues and time conflicts, but when I get that straightened out I'll do more again. I'm the most popular kids entertainer around here as far as I can tell. The most successful adult magician around here, who does a great job marketing, has also vented to me about the area, and he's in Alaska doing a gig now.
Dan Freed
AKA The Amazing Spaghetti https://www.magiciandanfreed.com/birthday-party-magician-for-kids http://thecaricatureartist.com http://danieljayfreed.com |
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Kevinr Inner circle 1854 Posts |
[quote]On 2012-11-17 15:07, Mindpro wrote:
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On 2012-11-17 13:51, danfreed wrote: So freaking true. How many of us say "I have way more talent than that guy! How is he on TV?" Its not about the next best trick some dealer or seller is trying to convince you to buy so it can collect dust with the rest of of the magic crap in your garage. Or some new move or dvd program for sale. You don't have even hours to waste to learn. Tesla didn't beat out Edison and his idea appeared better. Same goes for many companies and ideas. I always tell everyone who does magic that asks should I go pro? Am I good enough? I always say. "Your better than some probably already getting paid regardless of your abilities and if your better and smarter at marketing and branding yourself you probably could beat the top guy in your magic field since 95 percent in this business that are pro are stuck on the magic and buying more more crap and gadgets. |
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Kameron Messmer Special user Billings, MT 742 Posts |
I don't have time to respond to everything now, but I will, and want to. All I want to say right now is, in an area that doesn't hire many entertainers, I have had to do what shows come up. And I am a *** good childrens magician. Watch the square circle vid on my site. It was the first time doing that trick and I winged it. Maybe you'll watch it and tear it apart, cause I do, but I had kids laughing almost 10 minutes straight or more...I cant give that up... And I love sideshow and adult magic and I don't want to throw that away because it might be a better marketing move. I got into magic to do what I love...and make money at it if I can...
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Kameron Messmer Special user Billings, MT 742 Posts |
Im not saying the square circle took talent mind you, I'm saying I tried to make a entertaining trick and it seemed to work on 5 year olds...
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Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
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On 2012-11-17 23:35, Kevinr wrote: What a poor example, Tesla would have given us totally free electricity, Edison had harnessed electricity so we all can pay for electricity. So of course the rich crooks went with getting richer, and bankrupted Tesla. Just say'in. |
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Kameron Messmer Special user Billings, MT 742 Posts |
As far as my website being crap, I'm working on making enough to pay a designer, but it is way better than it was. I did every scratch myself and I'm kinda proud of it. Sorry I cant pay someone else to be creative and talented for me. I have got compliments by clients before, and that's cool for me.
Honestly, kids magic is more frequent and I'm good with kids. I love kids and I don't have any of my own. My wife hates em and I might never get one of my own. This stabs me in the heart. To give up kids magic would tear me up. I hear it all the time. "You are great with kids"... I would be. Yeah. I would be awesome with kids... But as you can see from my style, I like a bit more edge too. I like pounding nails in my face, I like eating fire, I like being a bad *** with fire and broken glass, because growing up, I was a nerd. I Never had friends. I sat at home. Alone. And read. And I wanted to kill myself. Now I can do a show for adults and feel like a god d@mn rock star. Even if its a crappy little bar, I finally feel good about myself because I can make people laugh on stage and put fire in my mouth and be cool, finally. Magic has given me everything I wanted, I don't work a crappy job, I own my own business. I can do kick *** things that others cant and I get to hang out with kids. I understand you guys are trying to give me sound business advice, and it might be. I thank you. Im not trying to be a brat and ask for advice and then do whatever I want. I was trying to see if anyone understood why I wanted to do both. Or if t Anyone else did more than one thing as well... I think this helped regardless. It has helped me sort out my thoughts... |
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danfreed Inner circle West Chester PA 1354 Posts |
You don't need to defend your site or anything else kameron. I thinks it's great that you do what you love. There are a few people on the Café that go too far.
Dan Freed
AKA The Amazing Spaghetti https://www.magiciandanfreed.com/birthday-party-magician-for-kids http://thecaricatureartist.com http://danieljayfreed.com |
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Kameron Messmer Special user Billings, MT 742 Posts |
Sorry for getting emotional and defensive, I understand some of these guys have a ton of experience and wisdom, but how can I tell which ones they are? Lol.
I have worked really hard and jump through a lot of hoops and have followed a lot more advice from here than people think, and I have come really far in the last few years. Every time I put myself out here on the Café I get beat down for something AFTER I just changed everything because of something someone said on the Café! Your website sucks, do this this and this. K. Done. Hows this? It sucks! Awesome... Your image is too dark for kids. ok ill hire an artist to do a kids design. Its not like ours! It sucks! Just gets old.. |
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danfreed Inner circle West Chester PA 1354 Posts |
Taking peoples advice can be a good thing in many cases, but on the other hand, I saw Eddie Murphy tell a funny story. Eddie performed in front of Rodney Dangerfield one time, before Eddie was famous. Dangerfield told him he should stop with all the dirty stuff. Years later, after Eddie was a much bigger star than Dangerfield, they ran into each other in a bathroom. Dangerfield says "I guess I was wrong!".
Dan Freed
AKA The Amazing Spaghetti https://www.magiciandanfreed.com/birthday-party-magician-for-kids http://thecaricatureartist.com http://danieljayfreed.com |
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themagiciansapprentice Inner circle Essex, UK 1381 Posts |
I am a kidshow magician (90%), I get bookings as a specialist in this area. If I get a booking for a wedding or close-up and I feel uncomfortable taking it, then I pass it along. I also take kidshow bookings passed on by these magicians.
I will take adult cabaret bookings (10%), but these tend to be short segments using a strength of mine (eg escape or silks) or within a Church Service.I can also loan props from other local magicians (at their suggestion) if larger illusions are requested, such as sawing a woman in half or cube-zag. Adapt to local circumstances, but make sure you are really strong in at least one.
Have wand will travel! Performing children's magic in the UK for Winter 2014 and Spring 2015.
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10585 Posts |
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On 2012-11-17 15:47, danfreed wrote: First let me apologize for the type-o's and misspellings, as I was just wanting to get my thoughts down quickly, before leaving for my two hour performance last night (it went well but am quite exhausted). There are many advantages, and some depend on the type of performance you do (kids, close-up, corporate, trade shows, large illusion show, etc.). One of the key decisions I spoke of is in deciding where you will be doing business as often this can dictate they types of performance markets you can and can not do. For example if you are in a small town and are not willing to travel, you more than likely should not specialize in the corporate or trade show markets, as they will be nearly non-existant in your market (you may get some low paying, budget corporate work, no trade shows). A few main advantages are it's easier than most other areas to establish yourself as the expert or authority in your area of specialty. It's easier to gain almost celebrity-like status. Several years ago I had an entertainer that I was coaching who didn't seem to believe the advice I was offering him. He said he "got" (understood) it but thought it only looked good on paper, but didn't think it could happen in reality in his area. He challenged me to prove it by helping to establish him as the expert or authority in his area. I told him no that I wasn't going to do it for him. He had to put in the effort and do the work. But to prove my point and that my advice would work anywhere, we ran a contest. I offered to go to any small town in the U.S. under 30,000 people and in 90 days help position someone from unknown to the top "authority" in their area. He could accompany me or observe the entire process. We ended up accepting someone who actually was a kids/family entertainer and as promised in 12 weeks he became the local celebrity and #1 choice for anyone planning kids or family parties. An extra footnote to this story, six years later he was forced to have to move (I think due to family illness and care) to another small town half way across the country, of around 12,000 population. This time he did exactly the same thing again on his own an established himself in three or four months as the go-to guy for kids and family entertainment. He also, based on the information I offered, was able to expand his business and became even bigger and more diversified this second time. Other quick advantages is it's easier to get community support. The word of mouth and community grapevine can be utilized and perpetuated to your positioning status much easier and quicker than ever possible it a larger city or market. Also getting media coverage is very easy and supportive and again gives you credibility and helps in your perception of being the expert or go to guy (or girl). Any media presence and coverage is seen as a far bigger of a deal in smaller areas. In a small market it is much easier to separate yourself from the competition. To stand out. The mistake I often see and one of the worse things you can do business-wise is to network with other similar performers. This only creates faceless entertainers. You are just one of the pack, lumped in with everyone else. You are aligning yourself with their mediocrity (or even worse). To the customer if you are all faceless and just "magicians" or all just "kids party entertainers", they will almost always go with the cheapest. Magicians, especially kids magicians, bi&@h about this all of the time, yet rarely understand they bring this on themselves. It's so easy to separate yourself from this pack and position yourself above everyone else. NOTE: in the above mentioned challenge, not only did the entertainer establish himself permanently as the #1 kids/family entertainer in his area, but he instantly before we even started the 12 week process, I had him raise his prices to be $50, $75, and $100 (per package) more than the rest of his competition. So not only was he able to position himself as #1 in his area (last time I checked he was getting 65% of all of the kids party bookings in his area -four local town radius of 16 miles), but he was also the most expensive. Rarely was the higher price ever questioned, mentioned or an issue to customers, it was perceived value I could go on but won't. This info took 36 years to learn and understand and is far more valuable than to be shared completely in an open forum, but hopefully I gave you a few answers and food for thought. Kameron, the answer to your question is: you are young and exuberant. I'm so glad you found something that is fulfilling, gives you purpose and meaning, and has changed your life. That is the beauty of entertainment and entertaining. However, now or at some point you must corral and channel these feelings and passions into a proper and practical business plan. There are many things that I know you have conflict with that come into play that I've picked up from just reading your posts. Your wife is a factor in this as I can see by your post above regarding wanting kids, and in previous posts about the possibility of moving or relocating if I remember correctly. This all plays into your business and related decisions, and often puts more restrictions on you and your business. You can find ways to make it work, that is the beauty of our business. I was a full-time entertainer, owned and operated a full-time agency and two separate full-time specialty agencies, all while being a single father to my one year old daughter (who now for the past 12 years has toured with my show as my on-stage assistant and road manager). None if this would have been possible without being an entertainer and crafting my businesses and business decisions to position myself for personal and professional success. I would not have had it any other way, and I could not have done all of this in any other profession other than entertainment. These are just some of the advantages to being in a small to medium area, there are truly many, many more. often times there are many additional obstacles in larger markets or areas that are even more difficult to deal with than the smaller area issues. As you can see, most have nothing to do with your performance , skills or talent as a magician. Bill Hegbli wrote: "Danfreed, I think if your read your last post over several time to yourself you will see why you are not where you want to be. Negative comments." No offense, but I must say I had the same initial thoughts too upon first reading this. We often put our own limitations on ourselves, rather than seeking solutions to get where we want to go or be where we want to be. As far as web sites go I have my own beliefs on this too. The key to a web site is to appeal and create action from the intended target customer. Not yourself and personal likes, not other magicians offering advice, and most certainly not from a web designer - they do't understand you, your business or your customers. The majority of the time, unless the initial eight or ten decisions are made FIRST that I mentioned in my original post, the money most entertainers spend on having a professionally designed and hosted web site is a pure waste of time and money. I have probably a dozen or fifteen web sites for each of my various businesses and entities. They are all professional web sites with their own specific domains (not "free" sites with your name tacked on to a generic domain (this screams unprofessional), and not one was created or written by a designer, I did every one of them myself. They cost less than a value meal per month and generate results. I can test and change content as needed for free whenever I want. I have complete control and access at all times. No one knows your business, your marketing plan and your target customer better than you. Unless you take the time to interview many designers and select a designer that is willing to take hours of pre-production to fully and completely understand you and your business and your targets, you should never spend money or expect results just because they are a web site designer. |
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danfreed Inner circle West Chester PA 1354 Posts |
Mindpro,
Thank you for all the effort in explaining your points, and I agree with almost everything you said. I know I was whining and sounded like I was making excuses, but I like to vent sometimes with fellow entertainers. And again, I never said being in a smaller area meant that you can't do well, I just said it takes extra effort - all the ideas you mentioned and more. Actually, I do disagree on with you about not networking with fellow magicians (unless I'm misunderstanding what you meant), and many top magicians will also disagree with you on that one. For example, I'm sort of friends with the the most popular magician for adults around here. He doesn't like to do the kids stuff too much, but he gets calls for that a lot, so he refers those clients to me and another buddy of his, and I in turn send him the adult gigs because I don't do them. People don't have to lump me together with other people just because we send each other work and hang out once in a while. Just have a quality act and make sure you have a unique identity (not generic) and you should be fine. There is a guy in town that stinks and is kind of a kook, so I have nothing to do with him. When I was an agent, I was good friends with my main competitor, and it only helped. It's good to be known among fellow local entertainers as being friendly and helpful. It's a shame that so many really talented entertainers don't market themselves better. I know one of the best balloon guys in the country, and he does get some really good clients, but he could be doing so much better - he doesn't even have a website. My best friend is a musician and doesn't have a website. Some people just have a hard time getting going with that kind of stuff. I made all my sites and host them using Intuit.com , and I think it's easier and better than some other sites I've tried. And I get unlimited websites for $24 a month, plus the minimal cost of registering the domain names through GoDaddy.com. And I also agree on the ease of becoming the main guy/authority/most popular thing, which I did easily. Being an authority on the subject is done in part by speaking intelligently and professionally and being helpful to the clients. It's also done in part by putting articles or links to articles that you and others have written on your website, or emailing them the info when they contact you, and by showing all the big clients you do work for on your site(unless you are concerned that others will try to steal them), and by showing quotes from happy clients, and by appearing on local TV and radio and newspaper (which I've been lazy about), and having a really good act, among other things.
Dan Freed
AKA The Amazing Spaghetti https://www.magiciandanfreed.com/birthday-party-magician-for-kids http://thecaricatureartist.com http://danieljayfreed.com |
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Kameron Messmer Special user Billings, MT 742 Posts |
Mind pro. I love the local celeb idea. I have that a little now, but its mostly 6 year olds. I do farmers market on weekends in the summer and that often gets me recognised at a on of other places. I want to work on this next year, as I'm doing a seasonal business right now. Any tips you can pass my way would be appreciated. Im going to have to do some research...
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