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iwillfoolu Special user Upstate NY, USA 746 Posts |
Oops, that should be 1% and 2%.
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magicians Inner circle Teacher and Legend 2898 Posts |
Gentlemen, Props have their value, each prop accounts for x number of minutes of your show. The vanishing flowers, appearing canes takes seconds to perform, they last for years. I can't see the usefulness of equating the prop value to your show price.
You have a competitive market for any show. The market dictates the price, not your props. We hire acts, and we have had a budget for an hour show of $2500 at our club annual venue. We have had acts with $200,000 worth of props plus trucks and livestock and assistants, and we have had $20,000 worth of act. Bottom line, if you want to work, the venue dictates the price. Your value of presenting $200,000 worth of magic for the same price as a $20,000 act will get you preference but not more money. Your ability to do the largest of venues is the only advantage, that is if you are worth the equivalent of your props. We hired a $200,000 prop act and he sucked in comparison to a $3000 act.
Illusionist, Illusionist consulting, product development, stage consultant, seasoned performer for over 35 years. Specializing in original effects. Highly opinionated, usually correct, and not afraid of jealous critics. I've been a puppet, a pirate, a pawn and a King. Free lance gynecologist.
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w_s_anderson Inner circle The United States 1226 Posts |
Who was the prop act??
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magicians Inner circle Teacher and Legend 2898 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-11-28 13:46, w_s_anderson wrote: I Pm'd you
Illusionist, Illusionist consulting, product development, stage consultant, seasoned performer for over 35 years. Specializing in original effects. Highly opinionated, usually correct, and not afraid of jealous critics. I've been a puppet, a pirate, a pawn and a King. Free lance gynecologist.
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plainman007 Special user 630 Posts |
A lot of good opinions. Actually we arent talking cost of illusions Vs value to audience/client. May I remind you that we are only looking at internal cost audit. To rephrase the original post in a different manner would be to say your charge X value. How much would you put away towards your equipment recovery piggy. Like magicians said. X prop equals x minutes on your show. Its an equpment like your fax machine.
So when I meant infrastructure I mean everything. Your pc, phones, fax, manpower costs, office expenses, electricity per year, and such other COSTS OF DOING BUSINESS. And how would you divide/spread them. This is the original intent of the question and not, "I have only $1000 worth of equipment, but I entertain and that's what counts" or peformers with $20,000 who charge equal to a $3000 act because that's what the market dictates. That is secondary. Lets say even if your acts props are only $1000. Even that you have to plan how you recover it. BECAUSE your prop will not last forever. And at the end when you have to replace the prop/illusion, you will sometimes end up paying more than you made during its useful life. Its a business oriented question. Not about performance value. And artistry. That is a totally different personal/individualistic area and that I wouldnt be asking for opinions on. |
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TheRaven Special user 597 Posts |
In the US, government tax rates dictate the "useful life" of an asset. You would fully depreciate the cost of the asset over what the government says is the useful life. Of course if you feel the useful life is greater than what the government says, you would continue to use the asset, but you would not be able to take deprecation on it (deduct it as an expense). The calculates are only meaningful in determining the feasibility of a business enterprise... i.e what would you NEED to charge to make the profit you desire. What you CAN charge your customers would be based on what the market will bear. If what you CAN charge doesn't align with what you NEED to charge, then your business model isn't sustainable and you need to reduce cost, increase income, lower your expectations or pursue another field.
Non-capital operating expenses would be treated similarly except they are not pro-rated over time like assets. Again the calculations only determine what you NEED to charge -- not what you CAN charge. |
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jay leslie V.I.P. Southern California 9498 Posts |
Please excuse spelling errors as my IPhone does not allow me to see the entire screen or scroll around, thank you.
I believe everyone here has actually read and considered your op. I also believe they are trying to convey that you are putting the horse before the cart. It's not possible to amortize something that does not exist unless you have a contract , for example at an amusement park, where you can approach accounting the way you outlined. I, in fact did work gor three years at an amusement park an even with the guareenteed income I still couldn't pigeon hole the costs. Sometimes I had to repair a prop or scrap it and replace it. Even farmers can not accurately make assumptions. Some big business cam if they have a track record and product that people want. I'm pretty sure that Sony and Apple java a grasp on it but the average, or above average, illusionist can not. ------/ on another note: some of your postings have been antagonizing. You will not get too much information if you aggravate people who have been in the trenches and are willing to share their hard earned knowledge. If you don't need any of us to give you honest opinions (and everyone did) so if you don't like our help then you must know domething we don't. In that case you don't need our help and no one will be irked when you don't get the answer you are looking for. I suspect that you have a Pre-conceived idea and are looking for people to agree with you other you wouldn't have posted such terse responses. I personally can only tell you what I've seen in my 40 years of show business including a masters in theater- and if you don't believe they talked about finance in the theatre department then perhaps a college would be a more appropriate place to make your inquiries. We are just magicians who obviously do not have the answers you seek. The next place is to consult your account. I have. When I ask the same questions you have the answer is "it all depends on how much Capitol you generate. Remember when you bought that really expensive illusion and sold it at a loss two months later? There is no answer to your question till you can show me a 5 year plan which includes contracts that bring a known gross" so if my account gives me the Catch22 that should give you a clue. And please try to be nicer instead of talking to us like we are idiots and you're the only person in the world who understands finance. Thank you for reading. Contact your account and your local theatre department for further help.
Jay Leslie
www.TheHouseOfEnchantment.com |
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David Charvet Special user www.charvetmagic.com 501 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-11-18 09:42, plainman007 wrote: This was the original question. As everyone has noted, there is no way to reasonably "tack on" a flat amount to a performance fee to cover all of these items. The market, budget and performer's reputation dictate the performance fee, in most cases. I believe the question has been answered. |
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