I've decided to upgrade to a nicer set of cups (I used Bazar de Magia's before), and the two that seem to be good, and in my price range, seem to be the Penguin Cups (http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/742), and the Phoenix Cups (http://www.industrialstrengthmagic.com/site/PCB.htm). I'd like to get some help from people that actually own these cups. Some Pro's, Con's, etc. It's mostly stuff about the cups themselves. How do they handle?

Penguin Cups Pro's: Inexpensive ($100), comes with a teaching of table hopping cups & balls routine, using two cups.

Penguin Cups Con's: That's it. Just some cups. I'm not quite sure on the reliability, I have never seen these in action.

Phoenix Cups Pro's: Comes with a really nice wand, really nice balls. Heavy lip, so even with stuff inside the cup, you can slide the cups around without fear of the loads clipping the lip. Durable, apparently you can play whack a mole on these things, without any worry.

Phoenix Cups Con's: A bit higher on my price range, I'd be a little iffy on spending $200 on cups, considering I have no sources of income right now.

So? What do you guys think? If Penguin Cups are good for handling, I'd get these. But if not, I'm leaning towards the Phoenixes... I'm also open to other suggestions for other cups! My price range doesn't go much above $200, unfortunately...

I had both, and I like the phoenix more because of the shape and being heavier, James Riser used to sell some seconds for $100, not sure if he still have them

Keep looking, you'll find better than both of those. Shop RNT2's site before deciding. They have a redesigned Phoenix 2 that solves many problems of the original Phoenix cups.

Penguin cups are essentially Magic Makers cups, spun in copper. They have consistency issues, or at least they used to. Some buyers have had to return several sets before getting a good one.

Phoenix cups are sturdy as tanks, but have limited "head space" for nesting balls between the cups, the rolled lip isn't exactly pristine, and they can wobble when stacked. They are a good cup for the money, but again there are better ones out there.

Used cups come up for sale all the time. I have one set for sale myself, but I wouldn't recommend them as a starter set plus they're a bit out of your price range.

edit: You can get a brand new set of RNT2 JES cups for $199
http://www.rnt2.com/jes-original-squatty......ish.html

If you can swing the $199, send it to RNT2, absolutely. You get unbelievable customer service from Donnie Buckley, and cups are his thing so you're talking to a pro. For $200 you won't find better quality in a brand new set.

I didn't know the Phoenix cups were being made again! Last I heard, the used/ebay market was the only place to get them. That's good news.

If your limit is $100, I would say that the Penguin Cups will be your best bet. Yes, there were quality issues when they came out, but I haven't heard anything recently. When I ordered from Penguin, I asked them to check the cups to make sure they stacked well. When they arrived, they did. No problems.

The Phoenix cups are nice. Very sturdy. The wand and balls are great. There are some limitations due to attick space, and the final load will need to be a tad smaller. But a good set of cups, no doubt.

Tom Frank is here. Maybe he can answer. I'm with Chessmann, I haven't heard that the old Phoenix cups are available either. He advertised these as "Limited" so I figured once the current stock was depleted there wouldn't be any more.

Since Tom enlisted RNT2 for a "phase two" redesign, I assumed that there would not be a new production run of the old design. Otherwise, what's the point of advertising a "Limited Edition?"

Dave V is point on. I own the Phoenix cups, and they are indeed tanks...street cups...designed literally to be beat on. But, they do have performance glitches as Dave clearly outlined. And, I'll also vouch for RNT2's excellent quality and customer service. Contact them, give them a list of what you are looking for and your budget. I think you'll get some good direction to make an informed choice.

And.....as an alternative...

Maybe it's worth searching for a set of Charlie Miller Cups..

They're a MAN's Cup!

Yes they are. I had a set for a long time. They too have the same "attic space" issues as the Phoenix cups which were patterned after the Millers. The rolled rim is tighter though. Good cups if you can find them. I'd still suggest something more "standard" for starters.

The Bazar de Magia cups are decent cups, since you don't have income, stick to them.

I was thinking about ordering the sisti cups myself from RnT.

There is a set of Phoenix cups selling at $125:

http://www.oldmagicprops.com/itemsPage5/......alls.htm



Francis

........another thing in the search for cups - will you be performing before a biggish crowd or will you be performing for just two or three persons. if it's the latter, you'd be a lot better off buying a smaller set of cups than either the Phoenix or Penguin cups.

Fortasse

And as a matter of interest......this is a link to a picture that shows, side by side, the Ross Bertram cups, their child, the Magic Inc cups aka Charlie Miller cups, and the grandchild, the Phoenix/Tom Franks cups - all from my personal collection. Attic-challenged all three but super solid and immensely durable. the Ross Bertram cups are highly sought after by collectors. Just a few years ago, several sets of these cups were fetching close to 2000 US dollars at auction.... but not now.
http://s759.beta.photobucket.com/user/Fo......t=3&o=98

That's quite the collection. I've only got three sets of cups. I'm such a piker.

Awesome!

Francis

This has been great, guys. Lots of good info.

So, let's now put the price out of consideration. Only Phoenixes, and Penguins. Which one?

Some people say that the Penguins don't stack nicely, and the Phoenixes have small attic space, & need a smaller final load.

Does anyone here know if Phoenix /Penguin cups can take a tennis ball?

Phoenix, not quite. Penguin, yes. In my experience, it's the Phoenix that don't stack nicely. The only negative about Penguin is the chance that you get a set with issues and may have to be returned.

With price out of the equation, if I had to choose only one, I'd take a chance with the Penguins.

I own the Phoenix cups and never had a problem with "attic space," but then I don't stack 3 on top. Besides, if you're a good enough performer that shouldn't even be a worry. I also own a set of cups that are made in China(Zenneth Kok) that take a tennis ball that I bought from Penguin. Now they don't have them but I've found them here. The reviews are great and they handle real well considering the low cost. but they seem to be going fast.

http://www.zennethkok.com/product/20

If I were to buy another set I'd save the money to buy the Phoenix II cups from RNTII!

Sir Richard

The Phoenix cups will take a Chinese tennis ball. These are smaller than an American made tennis ball.

The Penguin Cups will not.

BTW, many of your questions are answered on the cups and balls museum web site.

And all of them have been answered here many times.

I can't tell you what set of cups will work best for you. I don't know how large your hands are or whether you have the skills necessary to perform the cups and balls at all.

Basically, your continuous rephrasing of the question indicates one of two things to me. Either you don't have the guts to make your own decisions or you think that by rephrasing the question you may get different answers.

Einstein said that one definition of insanity is repeating the same actions while expecting differing results.

My definition of a pain in the donkey is someone who wants other people to do his thinking for him.