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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Mentally Speaking » » Stealthboard series impression devices. (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Stu Montgomery
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The Merchant of Magic http://www.magicshop.co.uk are "introducing" the Stealth series of masonite impression devices by Mark Zust, in collaboration with John Riggs. Almost certainly the Brown Hornet series, plus a "see-through, acrylic" version. Prices £65.99 - £78.99. If these are Riggs products & are as good as the reviews in the Café, it'll be nice to have them available from a UK dealer!!
"Round about what is, lies a whole mysterious world of might be" Longfellow.
Tony Iacoviello
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What collaboration? They are being made and sold after Mark promised Jon he would remove them from the market.

Below is a post from the thread in Mentally Speaking.

Quote:
On 2012-11-13 14:31, Amirá wrote:
Words from Mr. Riggs:

"To answer your questions: Yes, the Zust line of "Stealth" products are a knockoff of my Brown Hornet Technology."


This is a small community. Sadly some persons prefer to make quick fame and steal and not contribute to the advancement to the art.

I stay with Riggs.


Best
Stu Montgomery
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Hmmm... I've just googled 'Mark Zust' & didn't particularly like what I read! That's the sales pitch in The Merchant of Magic's site, "in collaboration with John Riggs". Googling Zust, I see he introduced a clip board very (too!!) similar to the Riggs range. Some "corroboration" ensued thereafter - allegedly. Other than that, I knew nothing about these till I saw the advert tonight.
"Round about what is, lies a whole mysterious world of might be" Longfellow.
Tony Iacoviello
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The advert is untrue.
They were created by Mark years ago, he said independently, even though he had been a customer of John's.
When he was called on this, he added a comment to the initial line crediting John. He communicated with John and told him that he would not produce them anymore, the existing product that was already in the dealers possession is all that would be sold (this was years ago).
Mark has just rereleased this.

John's only involvement was in telling Mark, this is just a poor rip off of my product.

Tony
Stu Montgomery
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They're appearing (with the same pitch) on US dealers sites also (MJM Magic, Elmwood Magic,Penguin Magic et al)! This isn't nice at all! The Penguin advert also states: "Made in the USA - All stealthboard masonite clipboards are made from recycled wood in the USA and assembled in MIssissippi by adults with disabilities". I for one WONT be buying these - & if the original are still being made by Jon, he'll get my business!
"Round about what is, lies a whole mysterious world of might be" Longfellow.
Jamie D
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I am and will always be a loyal customer to Johns products! Hopefully this gets resolved and in the meantime, maybe johns son will stop by and let us know what's going on if he knows of anything.

Darren
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FocusYourMAYND
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What has been said in this thread is true. Dad does not endorse these products at all. Dad contacted Mark and an agreement was reached, that Mark would cease production and after the existing stock which he had supplied to dealers was exhausted, no more would be produced. All Dad asked for was credit for the Brown Hornet Technology which lies at the heart of the Stealthboard method. The Stealthboards do indeed use the "Brown Hornet" technology, but in a vastly inferior application. In other words, the gimmick is not built into the clipboard itself, as in Dad's products.

FYM
Tom Jorgenson
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That small difference makes a huge difference.
We dance an invisible dance to music they cannot hear.
Perceptionist
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Gentlemen, please see my post from Oct 1, 2012 below. I appreciate your loyalty to and passion for John's products. That said, I have been a professional corporate magician and trainer since the early 1980s. I developed the Stealthboard independently of John's work and I stand by the quality and integrity of the product. The new Stealthboard Reloaded has been introduced to the magic and mentalism community because it provides an alternative to not only the brown hornet but to a variety of other impression devices currently on the market. For the record, the new material IS different from John's, has been field tested for the past two years, and offers a better impression (especially in low light situations) than John's. As with my original Stealthboard, the flexibility to mount the "impression sandwich" on the board so that you can have it locked in place (for pre-show work) OR use it for immediate glimpses is a strong plus. In the Neon version, the gimmick is in plain sight but is effectively "invisible", a subtlety that many performers have told me they appreciate. For my varied performing situations, I find the flexibility of setting up the gimmick to be critical, and I see it as an advantage over any devices where the impression technology is built in. Just my humble opinion. Best wishes to you all for a healthy and successful 2013. Cheers, Mark

Original Oct 1, 2012 post:
I'd like to clarify why I am offering the Stealthboard Reloaded. The new gimmick uses entirely different materials. It is considerably thinner, lighter, sturdier and more sensitive than my original Stealthboard or even the John Riggs items I own. I have road tested the new board in more than 200 performances over the past two years and it works very well for me. The impression is also easy to see in low light situations, which is a plus when working cabaret or restaurants. It is true that the original Stealthboard (which I created independently of John Riggs' fine work) was very similar in the materials and method to his, which is why I agreed to include John's name in the original product. When I created the original Stealthboard around 2001 I was not familiar with John's work and I regret the oversight. Stealthboard Reloaded is a new approach and I am proud to put my name on it and offer the product to magicians and mentalists. It does not require chemicals, powders, a magnetic stylus, magnetic vinyl, wax impression board, carbon paper or electronics. It's clean, direct and reliable, which is what I expect of all my props, as I'm sure you do. I believe it is an added plus that the board can be easily converted to either a peek or a locked version, depending on whether you're doing pre-show work or need to access the information in real time and with no cover. The working pros I've shared the board with appreciate that flexibility. Kudos to John Riggs for all the excellent products he has produced and I wish him well. I hope you will extend me and my products the same courtesy. I have been a professional performer for 35+ years and I respect all branches of the magical arts. In my humble opinion, the Stealthboard Reloaded is a contribution to our art and I hope you will judge it on its own merits. Thank you.
Mark Zust, The Perceptionist. "Changing the world, one mind at a time." Speaking, Training, Entertaining.
Amirá
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Quote:
On 2013-01-07 19:01, Perceptionist wrote:
Gentlemen, please see my post from Oct 1, 2012 below. I appreciate your loyalty to and passion for John's products. That said, I have been a professional corporate magician and trainer since the early 1980s. I developed the Stealthboard independently of John's work and I stand by the quality and integrity of the product. The new Stealthboard Reloaded has been introduced to the magic and mentalism community because it provides an alternative to not only the brown hornet but to a variety of other impression devices currently on the market. For the record, the new material IS different from John's, has been field tested for the past two years, and offers a better impression (especially in low light situations) than John's. As with my original Stealthboard, the flexibility to mount the "impression sandwich" on the board so that you can have it locked in place (for pre-show work) OR use it for immediate glimpses is a strong plus. In the Neon version, the gimmick is in plain sight but is effectively "invisible", a subtlety that many performers have told me they appreciate. For my varied performing situations, I find the flexibility of setting up the gimmick to be critical, and I see it as an advantage over any devices where the impression technology is built in. Just my humble opinion. Best wishes to you all for a healthy and successful 2013. Cheers, Mark

Original Oct 1, 2012 post:
I'd like to clarify why I am offering the Stealthboard Reloaded. The new gimmick uses entirely different materials. It is considerably thinner, lighter, sturdier and more sensitive than my original Stealthboard or even the John Riggs items I own. I have road tested the new board in more than 200 performances over the past two years and it works very well for me. The impression is also easy to see in low light situations, which is a plus when working cabaret or restaurants. It is true that the original Stealthboard (which I created independently of John Riggs' fine work) was very similar in the materials and method to his, which is why I agreed to include John's name in the original product. When I created the original Stealthboard around 2001 I was not familiar with John's work and I regret the oversight. Stealthboard Reloaded is a new approach and I am proud to put my name on it and offer the product to magicians and mentalists. It does not require chemicals, powders, a magnetic stylus, magnetic vinyl, wax impression board, carbon paper or electronics. It's clean, direct and reliable, which is what I expect of all my props, as I'm sure you do. I believe it is an added plus that the board can be easily converted to either a peek or a locked version, depending on whether you're doing pre-show work or need to access the information in real time and with no cover. The working pros I've shared the board with appreciate that flexibility. Kudos to John Riggs for all the excellent products he has produced and I wish him well. I hope you will extend me and my products the same courtesy. I have been a professional performer for 35+ years and I respect all branches of the magical arts. In my humble opinion, the Stealthboard Reloaded is a contribution to our art and I hope you will judge it on its own merits. Thank you.



So now comes my turn.
I will copy your imp device and sell it as my own.

Best
Pablo
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Perceptionist
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Which proves what, exactly?
Mark Zust, The Perceptionist. "Changing the world, one mind at a time." Speaking, Training, Entertaining.
saysold1
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I don't trust Zust...
Creator of The SvenPad Supreme- "One of the most versatile and well made utility devices I have ever used. Highly recommended." Bob Cassidy www.SvenPads.com
David Thiel
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Nope. Wrong is wrong and stealing is stealing.

Given that we've heard the true facts, this is stealing. If he agrees that his design was 'inspired' by Riggs, and Riggs has told him to stop marketing it, it's absolutelynot cool. I'm with Riggs.

David
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Perceptionist
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Normally, I would let this go, but "stealing" is a strong word and your conclusion is misinformed. I never said my creation was "inspired" by John Riggs. As I explained in the Oct 2012 post, I developed my impression board in 2001 independently and with no knowledge of John Riggs or his work. In retrospect, I should have vetted my creation more rigorously, but the professional and amateur magicians I did show this to also thought it was original to me. I am a graphic designer and have worked with materials like polyester paper and magnetic sheeting for many years, so the evolution of the Stealthboard was a slow and natural progression. I created this tool to aid my growing interest in mentalism and my development of a Q&A segment within my corporate presentations. The various devices I've developed using this technology have served me well for over a decade, so, with prompting from several magic professionals that I respect, I decided to offer it to the magic community. When the Stealthboard and other products first appeared, I received a call from John. I was shocked when he told me of the similarity to his technology and he was understandably upset. He requested that I add "in collaboration with John Riggs" which I agreed to. I made the decision to pull the products after the initial production run, since the materials used in the gimmick were so similar. Like John, I invested several years developing my impression board and I incurred a loss by pulling the product. I did it because it was the right thing to do. But here's the thing: There have been many impression devices on the market over the years. Lee Earle's board using carbon paper with a vinyl covering material springs to mind. On the surface, this seems very similar to John's work, and I'm not sure which product came first. The point is this: The Stealthboard Reloaded uses completely different materials from John's, the set up is different (the same gimmick can be used for both immediate glimpse and locked pre-show work) and both the plastic and masonite boards are ungimmicked. As such, the product is significantly different from anything else on the market and should be judged on its own merits. If you choose to support John, that's your choice and I respect it. But please don't be in such a hurry to smear another professional's reputation in the process.
Mark Zust, The Perceptionist. "Changing the world, one mind at a time." Speaking, Training, Entertaining.
Simon (Ted) Edwards
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It sounds as if the original board was the "in collaboration" product and that this latest board is not. So it also sounds like removing the collaboration claim should settle everything quite well.

My guess is that this label is causing confusion, making people think that the new board is a reissue of the old board.

While I am very much against the copying that often goes on, I also really dislike the knee-jerk, pack mentality that exhibits itself here (often from the same group of people) from time to time.

Of course, I am taking Mark on his word because I've never seen his board.

T.
Tony Iacoviello
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Ted, I'm not part of a pack, I'm a lone individual who usually keeps to himself when it comes to products.
I prefer to take Jon's word as I know him and he has never mislead me.

Tony
Simon (Ted) Edwards
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I know you're not Tony.
Packs aside, the real question is, is Mark lying about these being new boards? It seems like the accusations are hearsay at the moment. Anyone who knows John's work seen Mark's?
T.
Simon (Ted) Edwards
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Mark, would you please mind clarifying the following:

On http://www.magicshop.co.uk, when one searches for Zust, the following products are listed:

Stealthboard (Masonite, XL Size 9X12) by...... - Trick

Stealthboard Reloaded (Neon, 6X9) by Mark Zust

The description for the latter says, "The same great technology as our premium Stealthboard but in a see-through acrylic low-profile clipboard..."

So it doesn't sound, from the advert, like the new boards are "significantly different from anything else on the market".

Maybe this is why people are reacting the way they are?

Cheers,
T.
Tony Iacoviello
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My posts referred to the ad copy information in the first post, specifically the statement, "in collaboration with John Riggs" which is not true of the new product. If that statement is on new ad copy, we have our answer.

Additionally, as before, he did not contact other manufacturers (like Jon). We also have to accept his word that as a professional in the industry, and a customer of Jon's at the time, he was unaware of the industry standard (Jon's Brown Hornet). This may be true, but his repeating the same course of action as before does not lend credibility. All it would take is a conversation with Jon to resolve the questions (but Jon should not have to be the one to initiate contact, again). Since this has not occurred, what is left to think?

Tony
Simon (Ted) Edwards
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I think that the OP has made an error. He possibly refers to the old (OUT OF STOCK) boards. The adverts for the available ones do not mention John. Here is the advert copy in full:

Quote:
The same great technology as our premium Stealthboard but in a see-through acrylic low-profile clipboard. The 6" x 9" SBN has the same foolproof locking feature and it takes under ten seconds to view the impression and reset. The clipboard, which is ungimmicked, is made of a sturdy colored "neon" acrylic.* When light passes through the surface or back, the edges seem to glow. Very cool! Comes with an ungimmicked ballpoint pen and 25 sheets of 20# paper. Also, you get everything you need to customize your clipboard so that it is either a locking or immediate peek version. You can switch to either version at any time. Includes 1 SBN clipboard as well as full-color instructions and invaluable performing tips from working pro Mark Zust.

*Note: As with all acrylics, the neon plastic board is very sturdy but it can be scratched or cracked if you drop it repeatedly or pile lots of heavy stuff on it. If your performing style and venue requires an extra sturdy clipboard, we recommend the Stealthboard Masonite. It's super strong and will stand up to most abuses. Stealthboard Neon clipboards come in three colors, orange, green and red. The color you receive may vary from the photo shown and depends on availability.


Cheers,
T.
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