OK, I may not understand the picture - Is that 5 sets showing the set in different combos, ie. the same set 5 times ,coins flipped to show other side? or do you get all of the coins shown? my post is on the assumption that it is 5 sets laid out.

You get ALL THE COINS shown.

All the coins you can see on the GRAAL Picture are ONE GRAAL (no more)

None of the coins match. All the dollars are not matching. I would stick with U.S. manufacturers if you live in U.S. It only makes sense that they have a much better selection of U.S. coins to choose from. And this guy is not cheap, especially if he can't even make an expanded shell yet.

Love the MKS Karate so clean !!!
Guess I'll have to start saving

so fun !

If you want a set with same date, aspect, or patina, You must to ask for it (options).
The graal you see is mine, 3 years old, and I love it like this.

Not easy to appreciate a gaff´on picture.
Try my gaffs, and you'll change of idea.

You tell U'S manufacturer have more choice on coins!!!!
I think you haven't have a look on my Custom Area.
well, have a look here : http://magikoins.com/en/Opt/Coins/usa/

seriously, for an expanded shell, what is the interest?
when I see an expanded shell fitting a coin, and I can see 1/3 of the edge again....
If you love it, then continue to buy from Lassen or another manufacturer.

Follow the link to see a shell cover a coin correctly, perhaps you'll change of idea on my work : http://magikoins.com/en/Catalog/Coq/

yep, it change of the standard karate trick;)

this one is more visual without change

"seriously, for an expanded shell, what is the interest?
when I see an expanded shell fitting a coin, and I can see 1/3 of the edge again...."

If you can see any of the coin sticking out from under a shell, especially when looking down at it at a small angle as a spec would, I say the shell is not made correctly. It should be entirely invisible to 99 percent of all eyes, as the edge of the shell and insert coin should blend beautifully. On the other hand, if a shell completely covers it's coin, then that has to mean that the shell will be noticeably fatter than the ungaffed coin when sitting next to it. That simply has to be, a shell could not completely cover another coin of the same thickness, because you have also the thickness of the face of the shell to add to the equation. Now turn the shelled coin over, if the shell completely covers the coin, the edge of the mouth up shell will be much more visible around the insert coin. If the edge of the mouth up shell is back away from the edge of the insert coin, it hides very well. So actually less coverage is better, if the shell is made correctly.

An expanded shell becomes necessary when you are nesting more than 2 coins, is my opinion. And that is what everyone is doing these days. If you start with an unexpanded shell, by the time you get to the 3rd coin, it looks way too reduced. Because it is. Likely most of the rim will be completely removed from a coin that has been double reduced, and that is the biggest tell of all. I have seen this often, it's exactly what makes a coin set look funky from fairly far away.

This is a very interesting discussion (as long as it stays civil). A good debate on expanded vs. unexpanded shells could be very enlightening!

Thanks!

Jim

I have both and love them.but I have to say
the unexpanded fits the best and covers the most also.
the only con would be it is fitted to the nested coins.
but even my expanded sets I keep as a set.i don't interchange
them with other sets.i have to admit lassens expanded sets
fit as good as a unexpanded set to me.i do prefer custom fits
though because of the exceptional fit you get.i don't like any
play in my sets.no noise issue.just my thoughts.
todd

The coins look very nice. The Okito box looks very beautiful. Wish I could afford to try one out.

I will stay civil

Before starting to build coin gaffs, I've been a customer of LASSEN, SchoolCraft, Kueppers, Van Dokkum, and others.
I Can Tell You that an Expanded Shell doesn't cover a Coin perfectly.
Perhaps you have more luck than me, and other customers :
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......orum=202

I have tried many solutions and has built enough of gaffs to make what I think to be the better
I don't say I'm in Right, and I'm the better, BUT just I propose my vision, my solution.

The rule of the Metal is :
To expanded metal, you lose Part somewhere (on Expanded Shell the Depht).
Thus it can Cover only 60-80% of the Coin (all depend of the manufacturer)

You can't perfectly cover a Regular UNC coin with an expanded Shell.
BUT, you can have a better result with Unexpanded Shell and SOFT and Reduced Coins. My coins have a reduced diameter of 0.02" and the rim is always present).
http://www.magikoins.com/WebOUT/ShCoin.mov

In Fact, Expanded or Not, Both have advantage and inconvenient.
But for me, a gaff with unexpanded Shell is more deceptive (an expanded shell less).

About the N.E.S.T, it's same. I've repaired Triple Threat of Lassen and a 3CM of SchoolCraft for one of my Customer. I can tell you that the 3CM has a better design, and you see less of insert coin than TT and the last coin is not a Chips (all depend of the manufacturer again).

Look at the picture attached to see it when it's closed :
(better quality here : http://www.magikoins.com/WebOUT/3CM_vs_TT.jpg)
Schoolcraft on the Left, MKS in the Center, and LASSEN on the Right.

I hope you understand all because the English is not my first language

Have a nice Xmas

Click here to view attached image.

I've used a Converter and I found these prices :

Unexpanded Shell + 4 reduced and remilled coins (Dollar Size)
MKS : 320.00 € (423$)
schoolcraft : 372€ (490$)
Lassen : 341€ (450$)

Flipper (Dollar Size)
MKS : 170.00 € (225$)
SchoolCraft : 189€ (250$)
Lassen :189€ (250$)

Flipper (Half Dollar Size)
MKS : 105.00 € (139$)
SchoolCraft : 91€ (120$)
Lassen : 133.00 € (175$)

C.S.B in Dollar Size (Dollar Size)
MKS : 295€(389$)
SchoolCraft : 298€ (395$)
Lassen : 247€ (325$)

Scotch n Soda (Barber Half Dollar Size)
MKS : 125€ (165$)
SchoolCraft :? € (? $)
Lassen : 160€ (210$)

Scotch n Soda (Dollar Size)
MKS : 215€ (284$)
SchoolCraft :? € (? $)
Lassen : 235€ (310$)

If I haven't doing mistakes, I'm cheaper on almost of Gaffs

Nice work.

A new quality gaff maker is always welcome in this community. Now go invent!

BTW the reason the above url is a broken link is because you typed a ) next to it. This should work: http://www.magikoins.com/WebOUT/3CM_vs_TT.jpg

Merry Christmas!

Alan

"Schoolcraft on the Left, MKS in the Center, and LASSEN on the Right."

It's very sad that one guy knocked off the Triple Threat the moment it was released to the magic community, and most of the magic community supported him. Now it seems another guy is knocking it off, so let's give them another round of applause.

I understood the MKS to be a nest, not a triple threat copy, but I may be wrong. If it is a nest, Lassen's Cerberus is superior in coverage IMHO (almost invisible from the dirty side). Perhaps Todd could produce a 3t with more coverage (my copper 3t has almost perfect coverage), but I am wondering what the big deal is. I hardly ever use my 3t for matrix routines and I never show the dirty side for any length of time. With my Cerberus, I can and I do.

Regardless, my comment about inventing was meant to suggest that the obviously skilled Magikoins should go out and create new rather than copy old.

You have written derisively here and in the past about encouraging someone who is attempting to copy the hard work and inventiveness of Todd Lassen. But I don't think that is what I have done. The MKS coin shown in the picture is an example of subperb machining skills, no doubt. But that does not always translate into easy usability. My Lassen 3t (that I got from John Mendoza) is a perfect working gaff. I know how it is going to react every time I use it. This may be because the tolerances are so minute, or it could be because Todd is a fanatic about trying every possible size or way to manufacture before he puts something out the door. Both are true, but who cares? Creating coin gaffs is an art, not (just) a science. Todd is Stradivari.

But there is always room for new creations. The TUC and Ambivalence come to mind. With his skill, I hope MagiKoins will be joining Mr. Tango and Xavier with his own marvelous inventions. That is all that I meant by my previous post.

I too alan am always happy to see a new inventor or maker
of new products for all to have a choice of what they may want.
todd

Hi,
Thierry (MAGIKOINS)is not a new customer.
As I said,you can buy with closed eyes because his work is wonderfull.
All my sets are fantastics ans the shells are done to be married with the coins.
If you want expanded shells,go to Xavier Belmont.
If you want unexpanded shells,go to MAGIKOINS.
That's what I think.

The nest is just that... a nest, but when it is made magnetic (as it says you can in the pricing) is that not when it becomes a copy of a 3T?

Informations between TT and 3CM :

TT : Expanded Shell + Shell + Reduced coin (all magnetic)
3CM : Shell + Reduced Shell + Reduced Coin (all magnetic)

my Standard NEST is like the 3CM (but not Magnetic)
my magnetic NEST is like the 3CM (all magnetic)
you can compare my NEST Magnetic to the 3CM.

I reassure you, I create my personal Gaffs too :

- http://www.magikoins.com
- http://www.magikoins.com/en/Catalog/MKSCS/
- http://www.magikoins.com/en/Catalog/Graal/
- http://www.magikoins.com/en/Catalog/MKSK/
- http://www.magikoins.com/en/Catalog/neokito/
- http://www.magikoins.com/en/Catalog/TwinC/

Thanks to all my fans for their messages

Your magnetic Nest is MKS C.3.S ?
What will be the price ?