Many years ago I purchased Rice's Encyclopedia of Silk Magic, volumes 1, 2 & 3. This set of books in my opinion are magic classics and full of a rich array of wonderful ideas.

I have been toying with the idea of purchasing Volume 4 for some time. For those who have this last volume, is it a good purchase and a worthy additional to the 3 set volume originally compiled by Mr Rice?

Hello Peter,

I have all the volumes and this is just my opinion.

There are some new items in Volume 4 but most are variations of what is contained in the other previous volumes by Mr. Rice.

I'm a Magic Dealer and when asked to buy the Silk Volumes, I suggest them to buy just the first 3 if they are tight on the budget but if not, they could include Vol. 4 for completion.

Hope this helps!

Magically,

Ronaldo B. Moraleta, M.D., DPCGG
91 General Avenue, GSIS Village
Project 8, Quezon City 1106
Philippines
Telefax: (632) 455-9403 (ask for fax tone first)
Cell. No.: 0920-2364131 / 0918-9283187

Peter,

Unfortunately, most things in life and magic require compromise for money, if nothing else. Any volume of Rice's is a good deal. The first three do indeed have the most pages. What I do like about Volume 4 is that it updates to some of the props currently sold through dealers. There is definitely some new stuff there. Keep them all on the want list. If you do silk magic, you will use them.

Bob

Hello!

At the risk of repeating myself (again), LOL...

Anything with the Rice name on it? Gotta have it...if you do silks...well, I know of no other source as complete as that set. Vol 4? Count ME in!

Uh oh...I just went nuts and ordered a new copy of Rice Vol 3 from Silk King Studios...sheesh...couldn't help myself. Hope I don't get myself in a monetary bind because of it...oh well...too late now, HA!

Doug

Doug,

Five years ago you went wild and bought two more volumes of Rice"s Silk Encyclopedias. Can you do everything in them yet? LOL

They are a bargain.

Bob Sanders
Magic By Sander

While I love books and hope at some time to add the printed volumes to my collection, I bought the CD version with all 4 books on it. I copied it on my computer and also printed out the comprehensive index to it is easy to find something. I am very satisfied with the purchase and do recommend it, especially if you would like to add the Rice's volumes but are working on a limited budget.

The last volume is going to disappoint you if you think there is some secret miraculous hidden material that you will discover. However what the real use of the final volume is as an index to the volumes you already have. So the good news is that this final volume is in no way a collector’s item so you will not miss out on owning it. This last volume has only 200 pages of material. You must ask yourself, as we all do, when considering buying a magic prop is this a need or a want.

Ben

Mike,

Volume 4 is over 300 new pages (page 1544 to page 1854) and it does indeed include some material not in the first three volumes. An example is silk magic with CDs/DVDs.

In the mid 80s (I think 1986) Harold Rice told me there would NEVER be a Volume 4 because he wanted the same print and graphics quality as were in the first 3 volumes and that was no longer possible. The first 3 were all hand lettered!

Volume 4 did not come until 1993 long after Harold Rice had died. Mark Trimble apparently produced it. It is also illustrated by Tim Sonefelt. I feel like it is a very good work. I recommend it (and I don't sell it although I am the magicians' silk importer). In the rear of the book there are some additional 94 very useful pages. You will find there is an index to support about any way you wish to search the full 4 volume set.

You might check this thread too.

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......forum=54

Volume 2 is my personal favorite. However, I certainly recommend the whole 4-volume set. Like the others, it is essentially about the application of secrets rather than the discovery of them. Pro magicians will find it a very useful resource.

While there may be some argument that it may never be the collectors' item the first three volumes are (not a true Harold Rice product), it is definitely an asset to the library of a professional magician. Remember that Harold Rice was a university art professor. The integrity that comes with professorial detachment in research is indeed much higher quality than that which is included in packet tricks, DVDs, and peg board magic. Frankly, we rarely get exposed to it. This is not slum magic! Remember too that first, last and always we are entertainers. There is some great material here.

Go for it!

Bob Sanders
Magic By Sander

PS --- After research, I confirmed that my conversation with Harold Rice was 1/6/86 when he told me why he would not publish volume 4 of the Rice Silk Encyclopedia. Volume 4 is simply titled "Encyclopedia of Silk Magic" by Mark Trimble. Harold Rice's name is not on the cover, title page, etc. There is no claim that it is part of the set written by Harold Rice.

Much has changed in the world of silk magic in the last 3000 years. When I began the import business in 1969 magicians' silk came from Japan because it was illegal to import China silk into the USA. Today there are better choices available and now I send China silk to professional magicians in Japan. Japanese silk was the only option available for Harold Rice.

Just a short note of observation and correction:

First I think Vol 4 is worth having if ONLY for the index. That's something the original 3 needed in a bad way in my opinion.

Secondly, I didn't actually do any illustrating. Mark Trimble was commissioned to write/compile the 4th volume. He contacted me to help with the images. As Bob mentioned above 1, 2 & 3 were all hand lettered by Francis Martineau. Mark scanned MANY pages and actually created a hybrid font (actually there were several) to use in the 4th volume. So while it was not hand lettered it is based on the original lettering style and format.

There were no (or VERY few) new illustrations for the 4th volume. We actually found images from the first three volumes that were somewhere close to what was needed and we digitally altered them pixel by pixel. That's my background and what I was doing for a 'real' job then. That's where I came in. Mark contacted me through a mutual friend to help out before the first image was done for Vol. 4. I did about 1/4 to 1/3 (maybe - I'm guessing since I'm on the road without my copy). Then due to some financial issues I had to leave the project behind (basically I wasn't being paid as agreed not to mention the work load was WAY more than I was told). After that Mark did the rest of the images himself. He didn't have the right software to do the images correctly I assume or something of that nature because if you look carefully at the images, you'll notice that some of them don't look altered at all and some are OBVIOUSLY digitally altered. Those were the ones that Mark did. While they did an OK job of conveying the thought they were intended to, those later images really don't fit with the feel of the book because they LOOK digitally altered, not hand written. I guess budgets, etc. kept them from hiring another person to do that work properly.

Anyway, as I mentioned before, the 4th Vol. is worth having to complete the set and for the index even if you don't find any other merit (but there is plenty there - There is a Warren Stephens section in 4 if I'm not mistake that also alone is worth twice the price.

Now you know . . . The REST of the story!

Best,
Tim Sonefelt

Tim,

Thanks for bringing us "The Rest of the Story".

And I agree. It is a great silk reference book. Mine certainly isn't for sale! I use it.

Bob Sanders
Magic By Sander

PS --- There was already a 39 page index for Volumes 1-2-3 of the Rice's Encyclopedia. It was published in July 1981 by Harold R. Rice. The work was done by Rev. and Mrs. Clayton H. Birch ( AKA "Tony" and "Shortie")

The index to the three volumes of the Encyclopedia of Silk Magic (ESM) written by Harold Rice, referenced above by Bob, are still available from Silk King Studios for $5. Here is the link to the item:
http://www.silkkingmagic.com/Cross%20Ind......agic.htm
The Volume IV, referenced above, is technically not part of the Rice series.
Volume IV was never completed by Dad. I have a great deal of "Volume IV of the ESM", but, sadly, have not found someone to complete it.

Ruth,

Thanks for the information there. I'm glad they are still available. That is a deal! Since I got mine from your dad in 1980-something I'm surprised an inventory still exists.

Mine has the green cover with books numbered 1-6 on the graphics. Is the 1-6 significant?

Bob Sanders
Magic By Sander

That's great. I had no idea that they were still available. I don't own one but will be getting that as well.

Best,
Tim Sonefelt

Ruth,
If you are going to be at MagicWhirl, Richard and yourself and I will have to get together and talk again.

Richard

Richard,

Sorry, we will not be at MagicWhirl this year, and we'll miss you, but doesn't mean we can't keep talking.

Now just who will be in charge of getting Richard to the right place at the right time? Remember two years ago? We had to go to the "Lost and Found" for him. Ask Mike!

Ruth I was hoping to see you and Dick at Magic-Whirl too. Come by if you can.

Bob Sanders
Magic By Sander

Bob,
You always ask the most interesting questions.
Regarding the cover for the Index to Rice's Encyclopedia of Silk Magic, yes it is green and has the six books, numbered one through six. You will see a wand inserted between the 3rd and the 4th books. That signified that there were three volumes written at that time. Dad was in the process of writing the 4th volume, had enough material for the 5th, and planned on writing the 6th, thus, the six books on the cover.

Yesterday I received my Rice's Encyclopedias Vols 1, 2 and 3. I won them at the last Martinka auction. I know I'm preaching to the converted here, but let me say, W-O-W! They are the most beautiful encyclopedias of ANY sort I've ever had the pleasure of seeing. I am in awe at the vast amount of effects Mr. Rice compiled, and in awe also of the beautiful hand-lettering and illustrations by Mr. Martineau.

My wife, who is in publishing, perused some of Volume 1 last night (I wouldn't let her see too much) and she was amazed at the layout and the production of these beautiful tomes. They are a visual feast for the eyes and a smorgasbord for the imagination and they whet the silk performer's appetite like nothing else I've yet discovered.

I will definitely spring for Volume 4, having read all the above posts.

Hi, Ruth, if you're reading this...your SKS silks worked beautifully at my recent Christmas & New Year's & birthday shows

Geoffrey

Geoffrey, Thank you and your wife for the wonderful praise of Rice's Encyclopedias Vols 1, 2 and 3. They are indeed a work of art, as well of magic.
I'm glad that the SKS silks were well received at your Christmas, New Year's & birthday shows! Thanks for letting me know. Enjoy! Ruth

Geoffrey,

Don't forget to get the index from Ruth. It will make the whole set even more useful. Names of tricks seem to change with every new vendor. The actual tricks are very rarely new. If they use silk, they are likely in the books.

Bob Sanders
Magic By Sander