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dader76
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I see most performers drop the cup through another cup and it both looks and sounds great. The other day I did something different for a friend, a far better magician than I am, and he was amazed. Simply, I had my palm flat of the mouth of the cup and sort of mashed it into the other cup so the right palm was flat to the top of the cup in my left. It's just a different illusion which I've not used. I'm wondering if anyone, first, understands what I'm trying to explain, and second, has done it before.
Gary T.
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I'm not sure who came up with it first, but a lot of people do this as part of their cup through cup, they'll do one or two of them "dropping" the cup, and then they'll drop another one and act like it got stuck, then they push it through with their hand as described I can't think of who I've seen do it, but it's deffinately been done.
fortasse
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I guess when a trick has been performed for 2000 years, just about every possible move has been performed by someone sometime somewhere along the way.

Fortasse
Gary T.
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I've always been told that if I want to learn a new trick I should read an old book.
fortasse
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True
Lawrence O
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Quote:
On 2012-12-12 21:39, fortasse wrote:
I guess when a trick has been performed for 2000 years, just about every possible move has been performed by someone sometime somewhere along the way.

Fortasse


For 15 years, I've been recording every possible effect and it's amazing to see how few effects with every possible variants are offered when many effects have simply not been in print ever... and that 's without speaking technique. How many, apart from Bruno Copin, have been doing the C&Bs using IT? How many with a combination of IT and magnets? ...

There are entire universe for the creative ones... Thanks God
Magic is the art of proving impossible things in parallel dimensions that can't be reached
dader76
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These responses are both wonderful and sobering (I've just come from my company's Christmas party!). Of course, with a trick that's been around for 2,000 plus years it's all been done and we have the nameless legions to thank for what we do today. As an aside, I once did a C&B version with coconut shells in Vanuatu -- look it up on a map -- and the locals we're not sure if it was real magic or not. I'm serious about that. The island I was on was very primitive. Still, it serves as a reminder that this particular effect, and performing in general, has deep roots.

Anyway, I guess I can't call it the Ader subtlety? I didn't really think I could!
Alan Munro
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Quote:
On 2012-12-13 20:48, dader76 wrote:
As an aside, I once did a C&B version with coconut shells in Vanuatu -- look it up on a map -- and the locals we're not sure if it was real magic or not. I'm serious about that. The island I was on was very primitive.

You'll find similar people in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Some have remained primitive, despite having what passes for an education. Plenty of affluent "savages" here. Smile
Al Schneider
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For what its worth.
Put large loads in two of the cups. Keep them tipped so the audience cannot see the inards.
Pick up the third cup and show it MT. Hold it in your left hand.
Now pick up one of the other cups with your right hand and do your push through thingy.
After this move, the cup in your left hand would appear to be the one you just demonstrated was MT.
Pick up the other cup with your right hand and do the thingy.
(Do the Thingy. Sounds like a dance.)
Again, the cup in your left hand was shown MT.
Do it with load balls or small ones to introduce them secretly.
Just an idea.
I hope someone tells me this is someone else's idea.
I hate being smart.

Al Schneider
Magic Al. Say it fast and it is magical.
Lawrence O
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Sorry Al, but we have to credit you for this Thingy.
Rafael Benatar had something comparable in an early routine published in Spanish but not with two large loads.
Now a magician could do this after performing the False Cut with Cups that appeared in Greater Magic Video Library: Magic from France Vol 48 as C&Bs subtleties under my name. Using Dader76's move, the MT cup could then be shown mouth towards the audience on top of the nest three consecutive times with the audience convinced that they have seen the inside of all three cups in succession. An interesting combo.
Magic is the art of proving impossible things in parallel dimensions that can't be reached
Gary T.
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Wait, Al, I'm confused, so, after you pass one cup through another you put it down and then pick up the empty one and pass the other loaded cup through it? and this is just as a way to have the loads already there to reveal afterwards? sorry I'm sure I sound like an idiot right now to those who understand how this is supposed to look/function.
Al Schneider
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I'll splain it.
From the spectator point of view, The cup in your right hand is pushed through the cup in the left hand. Well, the cup in your left hand was just shown MT. Focus on this. Before the push, the cup in your left hand is MT. THen, you push a cup through the cup in the left hand. If that were the case, the cup in the left hand is still MT. This is the point of view of the spectator. The strange thing is that the cup that was pushed through falls to the table clealy MT. Again, from the spectator point of view. You show one cup absolutely MT. YOu pick up another cup and push it through an MT cup. That cup falls to the table MT. If you think in terms of switchng cups, this does not work. If you believe that the spectators see the cup switch, it doesn't work. If you see the whole thing as a cup switch, it doesn't work in your mind. The idea of cup through cup is that one penetrates the other. The move I am suggesting depends on that observation. If not, the move fails and all of this is moot. Now the move I am suggesting is not a strong concept of deception. However, if the cups continue to be handled as if they are MT, the overall effect can be very startling. If the balls lock in the top of the cups, more manipulation can be done to demonstrate them MT.

The challenge here is to see how the spectator sees it and how you see it. This is the task of the magician. We see reality one way and the audience sees reality in another way. Sorry to use this kind of talk but that is the way it is.


Well, I hope that helps.


Al Schneider
Magic Al. Say it fast and it is magical.
Terry Holley
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Quote:
On 2012-12-12 14:48, dader76 wrote:
I see most performers drop the cup through another cup and it both looks and sounds great. The other day I did something different for a friend, a far better magician than I am, and he was amazed. Simply, I had my palm flat of the mouth of the cup and sort of mashed it into the other cup so the right palm was flat to the top of the cup in my left. It's just a different illusion which I've not used. I'm wondering if anyone, first, understands what I'm trying to explain, and second, has done it before.


If I understand your description, I read about doing it this way in a book on the cups. I called it the "slam" move over the years. I thought it was in Frank Garcia's book, but I just now looked and cannot find it in there, so now I'm not sure. In some ways I think it looks more impressive than the "drop through", but you have to have enough room and control it so the cup doesn't shoot out to far across the table.
Co-author with illusionist Andre' Kole of "Astrology and Psychic Phenomena."
Bill Palmer
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Quote:
On 2012-12-17 16:06, Al Schneider wrote:
For what its worth.
Put large loads in two of the cups. Keep them tipped so the audience cannot see the inards.
Pick up the third cup and show it MT. Hold it in your left hand.
Now pick up one of the other cups with your right hand and do your push through thingy.
After this move, the cup in your left hand would appear to be the one you just demonstrated was MT.
Pick up the other cup with your right hand and do the thingy.
(Do the Thingy. Sounds like a dance.)
Again, the cup in your left hand was shown MT.
Do it with load balls or small ones to introduce them secretly.
Just an idea.
I hope someone tells me this is someone else's idea.
I hate being smart.

Al Schneider


Suffer, baby, Suffer! It's all yours!
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
funsway
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Some performers feel the whole point of the C&B routine is the final load, so following Al's lead, One could pick up three cups, show each empty with a combination of flips and "cup through cup." (needing only to load the third cup while flipping the second) -- and go immediately to the final load reveal without all that small-ball shuffling stuff.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



ShareBooks at www.eversway.com * questions at funsway@eversway.com
Dave V
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I don't think I'd go that far. If that was true movies would be five minutes long and books would only have the last page.
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
cirrus
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Six words can tell a whole story: "For sale: baby shoes, never worn." (by Hemingway).
funsway
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Quote:
On 2012-12-23 14:14, Dave V wrote:
I don't think I'd go that far. If that was true movies would be five minutes long and books would only have the last page.


Most of my C&B/Cop Cup Routines do not have a final load -- preferring to seque into the next effect rather than "end" anything.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



ShareBooks at www.eversway.com * questions at funsway@eversway.com
Zombie Magic
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Quote:
On 2012-12-17 16:06, Al Schneider wrote:

I hate being smart.




If we had a beer together, after 10 minutes of me talking, you'd be so grateful you were born smart. I'm the alternative and it isn't pretty.
Lawrence O
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Tom Sellers in The Gen Vol 16 N° 8 offers a nice one handed variant to the classic cup through cup. Two cups are nested and held in the right hand holding the upper cup between the first finger and thumb and the lower one in the palm keeping it in there with the middle and ring fingers. Toss the cup which is held between the thumb and first finger in the air making it give one complete revolution, and as it comes down, catch it inside the other cup, gripping it with the first finger and thumb. At the same time release the grip of the other two fingers, allowing the lower cup to fall into the left hand. The illusion of one cup passing through the other is even more perfect than with the traditional version.
Magic is the art of proving impossible things in parallel dimensions that can't be reached
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