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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Nothing up my sleeve... » » Beginner DVD: Eric Jones or David Roth (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Eric Caldwell
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For Christmas I receieved Ben Salinas' four DVD set "Modern Coin Magic." It is a good compliment to J.B. Bobo's book, but probably not the easiest place to start.

Now that I have "Modern Coin Magic" on DVD, would Eric Jones' "Metal" or David Roth's "Expert Coin Magic" set be a better supplement to what I have? The criteria for what makes one DVD better than the other is completely up to you. Please explain your reasoning, as that will help me understand which is better suited for me.

I have already posed this question to a couple of people before Christmas came around. Now, I would like the communities opinion.
evikshin
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I would encourage you not overlook the Ben Salinas DVD set, and to practice that stuff until you are competent. You can't get more basic than that, and Ben is a WONDERFUL teacher.
That said, I have both Metal 1 and 2. Eric jones is one of the very best. Money well spent. Same goes for David Roth. Can't really say if one is better.
Final advice, get them all, but only after you truly work through what you already have.
Merry Christmas
bowers
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Yes for sure complete your salinas dvds.
he is a great teacher.master what you have first.
I love david roths and eric jones dvds.i can't say
which I would buy next.there both great.
todd
Michael Rubinstein
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David Roth and Mike Ammar have both hasd successful beginning dvds that stand the test of time. The Encyclopedia of Coin Sleights take you from beginning to advanced magic. Can't comment on the Metal series, but I know you won't go wrong with the classics.
First edition almost sold out, but don't despair, you can still get your signed copy and free gift!! Taking pre-orders NOW!! Second printing should be ready third week of July. So don't wait!!
RUBINSTEIN COIN MAGIC- The biggest book on coin magic since Bobo's Modern Coin Magic, and the most important since David Roth's Expert Coin Magic! Hardbound, 500 pages, 20 chapters of state of the art coin magic illustrated with 930 crisp photos! A contribution chapter from over 20 of the world's top coin magicians! This will be the book against which all future books on coin magic will be measured! To pre-order, email me at rubinsteindvm@aol.com for info.
ORDER YOURS TODAY!!
Gary Kosnitzky
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David Roth was a child prodigy in coin magic. He read and learned Bobo from cover to cover twice by the age of 16, by 18 he was already a master and by 22 was performing at the Magic Castle.

To quote Dai Vernon:
"First let me state that David Roth has an amazing ability when performing with coins. He is truly a genius. I have been fortunate to have enjoyed the confidence and friendship of the leading exponents of coin manipulation of the past. T. Nelson Downs, Allan Shaw, Manuel and Welch Miller all specialized in this branch of the magical art. To the very best of my judgment, David’s ideas and execution far surpass any one of them. I feel quite certain that if they could witness his performance they would not only be astounded but realize that they had seen the master."

As far as teaching is concerned David's passion for coin magic resonates in his ability to teach coin magic using well thought out carefully constructed lesson plans. He pays close attention to the fine details and finesses thus leaving no stones unturned.

In my opinion David Roth is the quintessential performer and instructor of coinmagic.

To those who can't read English well (English may not be their primary language) and comprehend what I just said let me make one thing very clear, I am not criticizing the other guys. I am just praising my favorite teacher.David Roth's passion in teaching Magic has fueled my own passion for learning Magic for the last 44 years.
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Poof-Daddy
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Quote:
On 2012-12-27 18:08, Michael Rubinstein wrote:
David Roth and Mike Ammar have both hasd successful beginning dvds that stand the test of time. The Encyclopedia of Coin Sleights take you from beginning to advanced magic. Can't comment on the Metal series, but I know you won't go wrong with the classics.


True, very true. You also cant go wrong with Eric Jones but it is 1 DVD metal 1. compared to 3 with roth. Metal 2 is more advanced and Metal 3 is expensive gaffs. Also, Roth has quite a bit more to offer overall. I say this having the expensive gaffs and loving Metal 3, but that can come later.
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motown
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I would move to the Roth DVDs next. David Stone also has some excellent beginner DVDs.
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itlust
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DAvid Roth and Michael Ammar ...
Atom3339
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Roth.
TH

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Stanyon
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Go with Roth.
Stanyon

aka Steve Taylor

"Every move a move!"

"If you've enjoyed my performance half as much as I've enjoyed performing for you, then you've enjoyed it twice as much as me!"
John T Cox
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They are all worth studying. Each time you get a chance to see different people with different hands and sensibilities do magic you meld all that stuff into your own style and find your own way.

I like the Metal series with its more modern style that Eric has. I started with Bobo and then David Roth. I like Ben's Bobo DVD. Sometimes Bobo the book is overwhelming just because it is so big!

John
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Mb217
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Quote:
On 2012-12-29 11:59, John T Cox wrote:
They are all worth studying. Each time you get a chance to see different people with different hands and sensibilities do magic you meld all that stuff into your own style and find your own way.

I like the Metal series with its more modern style that Eric has. I started with Bobo and then David Roth. I like Ben's Bobo DVD. Sometimes Bobo the book is overwhelming just because it is so big!

John


Pretty much Agree with'ya, JT. Smile

Many good ways to skin a cat indeed. I have all these beginner DVDs and actually learned the most from Ammar's Introduction to Coin Magic. Interestingly, it is the same DVD that Eric Jones began with as well. That he came to develop his own beginners series as to coin magic, I believe is impressive. If you know Eric Jones, then you know he doesn't put anything out there without it being quality stuff. His Metal DVD is no exception. He teaches all the same basics as the others, plus he goes into some great updates on other moves. He's as good a teacher/instructor as any of the rest, truth be told.

And, also Eric's as good as any of them and better than most when it comes to coin magic IMHO. You can't go wrong with his work, it is up to date, clean & sharp instruction & routines, with a real funky new beat to it all. Smile I mean, Frank Sinatra was good no doubt but so was Michael Jackson who was all that and then some (actually much more), truth be told. Smile

Now, you can't get my grandfather to agree with that much like folks didn't like seeing President Obama sing a little Al Green, but such is life. Smile Reminds me of the old question as to things, "What's better, yesterday or today?" Smile Depends really but I have seen that "Yesterday" will usually speak up for yesterday. I don't know, it's all good to me. Smile
*Check out my latest: MBs Morgan w/ BONUS: Destiny, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at www.VinnyMarini.com Smile

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pabloinus
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Eric, I have the Salinas DVD and I think it is more than enough for a beginner, he is very good explaining things.
I have easy coin magic (or similar title) by Ammar 1 DVD and it is also very good, just 1 DVD, and I also have some of Roth's DVD, but not recall which series and it is also excellent.

Salina and Roth are the more complete from easy stuff to more complicated sleights. Rubistein has also a series of I think 4 DVDs, whicg I don't have but it is also very complete. I do have from Ribisntein one lecture in DVD and some other tricks DVDs and his teaching is very good and detailed.

Any of these guys could help you, it is just a matter of style and who suits you better, coin magic could be dry at times, so look some of the youtube videos of each of them and chose the one you personally feel better with.

Tango magic has an excellent DVD on just gimmick coins (Tangopedia) another alternative but just for gimmick coins

Pablo
jpleddington
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I very strongly recommend the Roth DVDs. I do not own the Jones DVDs, but I think the advice to "master" what's on the Salinas DVDs before you move on to Roth is misplaced.

First, the Salinas DVDs are structured like the book, and so, function more like a reference encyclopedia than a progressive course. They are, I believe, a valuable companion to the book.

Second, by contrast, the Roth DVDs teach you only the basic sleights you need to get moving (and provide a wealth of helpful pointers for mastering them, something that the more encyclopedic Salinas DVDs simply can't afford to include) and then immediately teach their application in a series of very powerful effects.

So, knowing little about the Jones DVDs, my advice is to get the Roth DVDs and work primarily from them, keeping Bobo's and the Salinas DVDs alongside as helpful references and sources for further exploration.

Now for me to get the Jones DVDs.....

J
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whiteoakcanyon
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It is so wonderful that as magicians we have so many great choices. More important than the question of which is what you do once you have them. Any of these DVDs will get you well on your way to being great with coins. I definitely appreciate the question. The group of DVDs you are contemplating are all great. Clearly you have keyed in on some of the best choices. Practice and enjoy.
evikshin
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Quote:
On 2012-12-31 14:53, jpleddington wrote:
I very strongly recommend the Roth DVDs. I do not own the Jones DVDs, but I think the advice to "master" what's on the Salinas DVDs before you move on to Roth is misplaced.

First, the Salinas DVDs are structured like the book, and so, function more like a reference encyclopedia than a progressive course. They are, I believe, a valuable companion to the book.


J


Hello J, the purpose of my initial post was to ensure that our OP did not become one of those magicians who has mountain of DVD's and books, but has not really spent the time mastering the material, instead, wasting his time going from one book to the next, one DVD to the next. Never really learning anything. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about!

I'd have to strongly disagree with you about Salinas's book not being a "progressive course." It was the first source I started learning out of when I started several years ago. But hey, it's just my opinion, and yours is just as good as mine.
Happy New Year
jpleddington
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Quote:
On 2012-12-31 17:44, evikshin wrote:
Hello J, the purpose of my initial post was to ensure that our OP did not become one of those magicians who has mountain of DVD's and books, but has not really spent the time mastering the material, instead, wasting his time going from one book to the next, one DVD to the next. Never really learning anything. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about!


Your point here is well-taken. On the other hand, it's probably good to have a few different sources to work from -- albeit not too many!

Quote:
I'd have to strongly disagree with you about Salinas's book not being a "progressive course." It was the first source I started learning out of when I started several years ago. But hey, it's just my opinion, and yours is just as good as mine.
Happy New Year


Certainly many people have started with Bobo's book (I take it that's what you're referring to), but it's a progressive course only insofar as it teaches concealments before vanishes before ... [etc] ... before full routines. It's NOT progressive in that it teaches ALL of the concealments (or vanishes, or whatever) at once without giving the reader (or the viewer, in the case of Salinas's DVDs) really any substantive guidance about what to focus on and what can and should be effectively ignored until more advanced stages of practice are reached. I took it that this was a common complaint about learning from Bobo's book. By contrast, each of the Roth DVDs, for instance, introduces only those sleights that are relevant for each stage of learning and pairs them with a well-selected and manageable number of routines to learn and master.

Happy New Year, everyone!

J
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evikshin
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Quote:
On 2012-12-31 20:26, jpleddington wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-12-31 17:44, evikshin wrote:
Hello J, the purpose of my initial post was to ensure that our OP did not become one of those magicians who has mountain of DVD's and books, but has not really spent the time mastering the material, instead, wasting his time going from one book to the next, one DVD to the next. Never really learning anything. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about!


Your point here is well-taken. On the other hand, it's probably good to have a few different sources to work from -- albeit not too many!

Quote:
I'd have to strongly disagree with you about Salinas's book not being a "progressive course." It was the first source I started learning out of when I started several years ago. But hey, it's just my opinion, and yours is just as good as mine.
Happy New Year


Certainly many people have started with Bobo's book (I take it that's what you're referring to), but it's a progressive course only insofar as it teaches concealments before vanishes before ... [etc] ... before full routines. It's NOT progressive in that it teaches ALL of the concealments (or vanishes, or whatever) at once without giving the reader (or the viewer, in the case of Salinas's DVDs) really any substantive guidance about what to focus on and what can and should be effectively ignored until more advanced stages of practice are reached. I took it that this was a common complaint about learning from Bobo's book. By contrast, each of the Roth DVDs, for instance, introduces only those sleights that are relevant for each stage of learning and pairs them with a well-selected and manageable number of routines to learn and master.

Happy New Year, everyone!

J


Fair enough! I see what you mean now.
Happy New Year
Evan
Lawrence O
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Quote:
On 2012-12-27 18:08, Michael Rubinstein wrote:
David Roth and Mike Ammar have both hasd successful beginning dvds that stand the test of time. The Encyclopedia of Coin Sleights take you from beginning to advanced magic. Can't comment on the Metal series, but I know you won't go wrong with the classics.


This DVD is unsurpassed and enables to adapt moves to different performing circumstances (rather than personal preferences).
Check your most successful routine with the Encyclopedia of Coin Sleights, there is virtually no chance that you will not find a way to fine tune it as you get through the DVD

A most brilliant piece of work that I'm regularly going back to.

Thanks once more for this splendid work Mike.
Magic is the art of proving impossible things in parallel dimensions that can't be reached
TheAmbitiousCard
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Roth's work on his first few videos is essential. It teaches you the things you really need to know and teaches them well.
Better still, they are taught in the context of great classic tricks.
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