Hey everyone,

I really like mentalism and find it fascinating, but I am realizing that there are not very many mentalists in this world.

It's all magicians!

I enjoy hanging around magicians but I feel a little out of place.

Is this the fate of the mentalist?

granterg

I do both (but not at the same time). At the magic club I belong to, several have expressed an interest in “getting into” mentalism. I treat them with respect of course, but not much expectation. (A noted author once told me, whenever he speaks, there are always one or two people who come up and tell him they want to “get into” writing. He never discourages them. Instead he tells them, “Send me your manuscript; I’ll be happy to read it,” knowing full well that not one of them will ever get that far!)

When they ask me about something, I’ll share as much as I’m comfortable with (no great revelations or anything), and of course I know most of their “stuff”, but at the moment I have no concerns whatsoever about any of them actually taking the necessary action.

I’d love to have another mentalist or two, but there’s enough magic in my background that we never have a lack of things to talk about. Besides, often (as has been noted TOO often of the Café) some of the mechanics are quite similar. Kenton has produced a whole body of work describing methods of using magician toys for mentalism. One of my favorites involves a H*mb*r R*ng.

In general there is much that we can talk about, and we always have a great time together. (On one occasion I was talking about buying some m*rked Zener cards, and another magus showed me that the cards I had WERE marked and I had no idea. Embarassing, but also very funny!)

Our local club has a mix, and I am lucky to be in the same club as Simon Shaw.

The Magic Circle has a great mix and Psycrets is made up of mentalists, bizarrists and readers, even though the formation of many members is from a magic background. Many of the greats in Mentalism got their chops in magic and then moved into Mentalism....I am of the school that one learns the fundamentals of magic and then moves on to Mentalism....

There is a much to be said for cross fertilisation and in mature societies, the discussions can be very fruitful indeed.

Best wishes

Dr Todd

I have always felt that the essential benefit of performance magic (conjury, mentalism and more) is the affect on "who you are" in real life. Call it character development, self-actualization or just enhancing personal communication skills. Performing, practicing, studying and discussing magic in all of its forms can be beneficial. Why construct a mental box and close the lid on yourself?

Those who are drawn to this art of using astonishment in communication share a common bond -- the willingness to act instead of promise, the willingness to take a risk, to fail, in the process of learning. To allow some definitional myopia to restrict your ability to learn from the experience of other "of like mind" would be silly if not sad. It is even worth the weird "ego !@#$%^&*()_+" posts of some on the Café' for the chance to learn.

Pick put what works and ignore the rest -- but never exclude another "lover of magic" out of hand because of some label or passing fancy.

Personally I'm never particularly comfortable with the term "mentalism" though I can see the advantages to performers who like to situate themselves in the ambiguous realm somewhere between psychism and trickery.

At the end of the day mentalism is just a presentational style. The substance is all magic, though we can pretend, even protest, that it may not be.

Mike

@ Michael Daniels, I really could use a "LIKE" button right now.

Steve

Steve - and I could do with a "LOOK ALIKE" button.

Mike

I am soon realizing most magicians have very little interest in mentalism.

Thanks everyone for all the comments.

respect, granterg

It's your luck Jan

Yeah, thanks for the comment Jan.

It seems like lay people enjoy mentalism more than most magicians do!

PS I have got nothing but respect for magicians.

granterg

Of course, because mentalism plays much more personal and direct to each person.

Most magicians like mentalism, but they mostly have a 'kicker ending' mindset, where the razamataz moment falls firmly on their shoulders at the end of a routine to show how clever and cool they are.

As mentalism is all about the spectators and less about the performer, magicians can find it hard to see why this is entertaining. And magic tricks feel 'safe' so even after slotting a few BWave's and 8 Card BWave's into their set, they'll rarely get further.

To do mentalism well you have to be directly engaging, and many magicians take up magic to make up for their inability for being able to do just that. You have to be very comfortable in your own skin and with other people to do mentalism well, and if you're using magic as a crutch for a somewhat flimsy personality then you're not going to be able to pull it off.

Of course there are lots of exceptions to the rule as others have pointed out and there are lots of very skilled finger flingers and wotnot who have no problem at all crossing the divide and having totally different mind reading and magic sets in their repertoire. Nothing like being versatile.

I really like card tricks, magic tricks and all kinds of magic. In fact I've decided that it's a shame I don't keep the magic side of things up so I'm doing the reverse - my new years resolution is to get my magic chops back up to speed so that I can perform magic and not just mentalism where required.

And you don't hear that very often!

Jeez,here we go again with this magician/mentalist dichotomy. Maybe you guys need to take up cross dressing or something simliar to get your heads screwed on straight. Give me the good old days of Annemann & Nelson.....

How many sponge bunnies am I thinking of?

It would be quite good to do a confabulation based around an imaginary magic show.

Then you could have the best of both worlds.

Not sure how many bunnies but I believe that you are using the old adams set of yellow bunnies because the goshman red super soft and the 3D bunnies look too much like a magic prop ;-)

my advice you become magician and be happier. plus start it for you to mix magic with your mentalist tricks.
it make all your show much better with magic added.
but if still like mentalism it ok for you. but you need to mix more magic with your mentalism illusions.
I tell why- 1- your show it become better 2- you feel happier. plus as good bonus you no longer feel out of place and still be fascinate.
I help on your journey if he need it.

lostpoet-

Great post! You've got me laughing so hard that I nearly fell out of my chair!

I hope I am still fascinate after I mix more magic with the mental tricks.

Good thoughts,

Bob

I have met only one mentalist in person, and the conversation was most enjoyable. I've spent a little time hanging out with magicians, and have enjoyed that experience. I have spent some time chatting with other readers, but the shut eyes are rather dull, frankly. I tend to feel out of place most of the time. The specoific company doesn't really matter.

The old "mentalism VS conjury"... Nothing to see here folks.

Okay bad joke ( but if you laugh, thank you for your appreciation), Magic and mentalism both share a common ancestor= Shamanism and the shaman of the past. However the essence is different. Mentalism in the traditional form ( and it's counter-part Spiritualism/Bizarre) have more in common with the shaman of yesterday then magic as done by magicians. Mentalism/bizarre is the closest you will ever get to doing something real. Magic as in coujury has been condemned to boxes, tubes and odd artifacts that beg the question. I consider myself BOTH a magician and a mentalist, though I am slowly growing away from those odd artifacts. I think the solution is just sleight of hand conjury and manipulation.

A long time ago I had great admiration for grand illusions and parlor magic... I still do, but the problem is, it's still mechanical a lot of times and a lot of us treat it as a mechanical feat. Another problem is the magicians.... Many are simply bad at what they do and of course there are bad mentalists, but you don't hear of them much. I believe that mentalists are BETTER at covering themselves up during an error they make then magicians. Mentalists, from what I have observed/experienced tend to be much more aware of humans and human behavior/nature. Mentalists don't often come off as "nerds/geeks". Maybe freaks (but hey that is not such a bad thing IMHO).

Just remember both arts share a common ancestor and somewhere along the course of time, the two approaches diverged from one another into almost two separate domains.

THEN.....
There is Mental Magic, which to me is an intellectual insult to Mentalism and it's fairly confusing because it butchered up and merged the two arts into a awkward sub-domain. I personally stay away from Mental Magic seeing that it is not pure mentalism.

Anyway I'm kind of just ranting at this point... Hope some of this makes sense. My thoughts aren't really organized at this moment.....