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Woland Special user 680 Posts |
This is a shocker:
Quote:
EDMONTON — Edmonton transit officials say they sealed the doors and allowed the savage beating of a passenger to continue while a train rumbled down the tracks because it offered the best hope to save the victim’s life. It is claimed that 2 of the other passengers Quote:
"did what they could to stop this while still trying to keep themselves safe,” he said. |
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
This is a horrible day in Edmonton. The city really is shocked by this senseless death.
John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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Big Jeff Loyal user 300 Posts |
No security around? where were the police? If they knew what was going on, why weren't the police waiting at the station?
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irossall Special user Snohomish, Washington 529 Posts |
15 passenger's is not enough to stop a single person? Something wrong with the math.
Maybe if just one passenger had a gun, this would have been stopped. Then again, the person with the gun probably would have gone to prison, while the attacker would have spent a few days in city lockup and set free. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/nati......6889329/ Iven
Give the gift of Life, Be an Organ Donor.
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Woland Special user 680 Posts |
There were several things in this story that shocked me:
1) The failure of 15 other passengers to stop the attack. 2) The idea that the officials could stop the attack by leaving the train doors open, so that the perpetrator could flee. Instead, he just kept on with his assault. 3) The decision to proceed to the next station, without any official attempt to stop the attack until then. I agree with irossall that an armed passenger might have been able to do more than the 15 unarmed passengers did, but that implies a certain state of mind, a certain readiness and a certain willingness to engage, that appears to have been lacking. (One thinks of the murder of Kitty Genovese, which some of the New Yorkers on the board may remember.) |
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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts |
There seem to be very few details released about the story so far, at least that I have seen. So just a few random thoughts, and no second guessing of the officials on my part.
I wonder who rides the LRT at 2 pm in Edmonton on a Friday, near and heading towards the end of the line, as was apparently the case in this instance? Healthy young body builders? Or children? Seniors? Pregnant women? I know when I ride the LRT mid-day in my area, the latter three groups tend to make up most of the passengers. This could explain why so few actively intervened. Apparently a few passengers out of the approximately 15 present did attempt to intervene. Some physically intervened. Perhaps the rest were not really capable of doing so? Some of the others set off the emergency signal in the train, alerting the driver and the police. Probably several dialed 911 etc. I wouldn't judge them all without knowing more about them. People should understand that LRT stations are typically above ground and may be a simple outdoor platform that is open on all sides. Some are like glorified bus stops. Often fares are paid through an honor system, and you do not have to pay a fare to get access (i.e. often there are no turnstiles or ticket takers). Now, the Belvedere station involved in this story is roofed and its sides are (at least mostly) closed, but one can still hop off the end of the platform there and be outside on the adjacent street or grass or sidewalk in a matter of seconds. What I'm saying is that an LRT station in these parts is a far cry from a subway station which is relatively easy to shut down and secure, and it may be the latter that some here are visualizing. Big Jeff's question about where were the police and why were there none waiting at the station, that was explained in the Globeandmail article: "Police could easily reach Clareview Station, one stop north and three minutes by train. But Belvedere was jammed up – a lengthy passing freight train, running parallel to the LRT tracks, had blocked the road." So if the assailant had decided to flee on foot from Belvedere, it seems he would also have been trapped on one side (apparently away from the shopping mall and residential area where the police were) due to the other train and the officials knew that. From the map, it looks like he would have been sort of stuck on foot where he was, and would have been fairly easy for the police to apprehend if they showed up within the next 5-10 minutes as seemed likely. Indeed, most of the surrounding area on the side the assailant was on is made up of parking lots and open fields, maybe an industrial strip mall or two. So I think he would have been rather easy to catch.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
IIRC the article said the assailant was caught.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-01-03 12:01, landmark wrote: Yes, he was caught at the next station the train went to, the one where the ambulance / medical aid etc. was waiting. I was saying if he had fled at the prior station when the doors were left open temporarily, he would almost certainly have been caught there too.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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Marlin1894 Special user 559 Posts |
Terrible.
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Seems like a train station in a major city would be a good place to already have police officers.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-01-03 12:25, LobowolfXXX wrote: As I said above, do not confuse an LRT station with a subway train station in a major city. "People should understand that LRT stations are typically above ground and may be a simple outdoor platform that is open on all sides. Some are like glorified bus stops."
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Thanks Balducci...I'm from L.A.; we know about as much about mass transit as we do about snow.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
Lobo
The New York City subways are full of police, but they still have people being pushed onto the tracks.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-01-03 12:38, Al Angello wrote: Your point is well-taken, Al, but that's a quick hit and not an ongoing assault.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
In the NYC subway system, dare to start a fight and three guys with accordions will start playing. Then the accordion guys get beat up.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-01-03 12:36, LobowolfXXX wrote: I'm not saying that every LRT station is as I described ... but many are. Also, in this case, it seems that all of the attack took place on a passenger car, most (all?) of it between stations.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
As Balducci noted, the stations in question are open-air platforms at the north end of the line. I couldn't find a great picture, but this gives the rough idea of the Clareview Station.
Here is a column from today's Edmonton Journal Quote: EDMONTON - You’re riding on the LRT. It’s Dec. 28, Friday afternoon, a little after 1:30. The train isn’t packed. Lots of people have the day off work, and early afternoon is never prime commuting time.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
Interesting twist in the tale:
Quote: EDMONTON - The man beaten to death on an Edmonton LRT car in late December was waiting to be sentenced for trafficking crack cocaine when he died.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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RobertSmith Veteran user 330 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-01-03 11:56, balducci wrote: All that analysis and yet you offer not one comment regarding Canadian laws which mandate that the victim, as well as everyone on the train were legally prevented from defending themselves (or the victim). Your analysis leads you to believe based on the geography he would have been easy to catch had he fled. See that's where you and I disagree. Violent criminals are much easier to catch when they're laying in a pool of their own blood. This is what the gun grabbers in the United States don't get. Repeal the 2nd Amendment. Pass gun bans. Doesn't matter. The right of self preservation is a natural right bestowed upon human beings (not just Americans) merely by having been born. Quote all the gun stats you want. Go ahead and say if someone else on that train had a concealed weapon they'd have just shot everybody else in the process. Doesn't matter. A free human being's right to preserve their own life can not be legislated. Subjects however... |
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Woland Special user 680 Posts |
Hi Magnus,
That is certainly an interesting twist. I wonder if his killer had been involved in a business relationship with him. In our American cities here in the lower 48, as many as 90% of the murders that provide such frightening statistical titillation to observers in other countries are criminals killing other criminals. |
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