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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts 
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Gee. I could have sworn that taxes paid for public schools, interstate highways, our military and tons of other stuff. Who woulda thunk that taxes don't really pay for anything?
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Woland Special user 680 Posts
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Hi Bob,
Taxes are just monies taken from people who produced them. My point is not that taxes aren't the vehicle for government spending, but that the government produces nothing. The people who created the wealth that the government takes in the form of taxes are the ones who are doing the paying - for everything. |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts
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Of course. But your words were "Taxes don't pay for anything" NOT "Government doesn't pay for anything."
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Woland Special user 680 Posts
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I think my statement was correct. "Taxes" don't pay for anything; taxpayers do.
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts
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Now you're just parsing words. The taxpayers give money to the government in the form of taxes. Those taxes are used to pay for everything the government does.
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Woland Special user 680 Posts
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I think it is useful for us, the taxpayers, and also the taxers and tax-spenders, to remember the source of the money. They are not conjured out of nothing, or even a single platinum coin. They are skimmed off the top of what individual people produce.
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts
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Yes. That is the definition of taxes. Are you are asserting that taxes are wrong, even though the Founders explicitly granted Congress the power to levy them to provide for the general welfare? (I know- here we go again into the Hamiltonian vs. Madison interpretations of "general welfare.
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Woland Special user 680 Posts
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No, I don't think taxation is wrong. I don't even think Federal taxation is wrong, when taxes are used for purposes that are among those powers enumerated in Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution.
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts
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And, of course, that's where all the argument is. You and I, and scores of constitutional scholars, have very different ideas about the interpretation of Articl 1, Section 8, particularly when it comes to the general welfare clause.
Not to mention the interrelationship with Congress's power to regulate interstate commerce enumerated elsewhere in the Constitution. |
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Woland Special user 680 Posts
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Quite right. There are many people who subscribe to all sorts of wrong opinions!
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts
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Quote:
On 2013-01-13 15:16, Woland wrote: At least we agree on that! |
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Woland Special user 680 Posts
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Indeed.
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Steve_Mollett Inner circle Eh, so I've made 3006 Posts
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Quote:
On 2013-01-09 12:13, acesover wrote: No laws, just ethics. The Europeans were the pillaging invaders. "Homeland Security, defending America since 1492."
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth. - Albert Camus |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts
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Well, there were SOME laws- like the many treaties we had with the Indians which we broke whenever it was convenient.
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Woland Special user 680 Posts
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What happened to the Indians here is what has happened every time an agricultural society comes into contact with a hunter-gatherer society. Unless I am mistaken, the Indians (who didn't necessarily see themselves as a unit) did a lot of fighting and pillaging amongst themselves. Does any nation on earth hold an undisputed title to its territory?
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Steve_Mollett Inner circle Eh, so I've made 3006 Posts
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Was that a valid excuse for Europeans to come in a'pillaging?
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth. - Albert Camus |
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Steve_Mollett Inner circle Eh, so I've made 3006 Posts
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Quote:
On 2013-01-13 19:18, Woland wrote: So, the USA isn't 'sovereign.' Interesting. 
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth. - Albert Camus |
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Kevin Connolly Inner circle New Jersey 1329 Posts
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Quote:
On 2013-01-13 22:52, Steve_Mollett wrote: Probably, since this how many Indian tribes operated themselves. It's something they could understand by past practice on other tribes they encountered.
Please visit my website.
www.houdinihimself.com Always looking buy or trade for original Houdini, Hardeen and escape artist items. I'm interested in books, pitchbooks and ephemera. Email [email]hhoudini@optonline.net[/email] |
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Woland Special user 680 Posts
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Hi Steve,
Who authorized the Magyars to leave the steppes and cross over the Carpathians into Hungary? It wasn't so very long ago. Who authorized the Viets to leave south central China and drive the people they encountered into the Montagnes? Who authorized the Dakotas and the Tsistsistas to leave the lakes and push the Absarokes west? The inability to answer those questions, by the way, does not mean that the US is not "sovereign." The US is absolutely sovereign over its territory, so long as its citizens are willing to defend it. |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts
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Quote:
On 2013-01-13 19:18, Woland wrote: Little matter of an Ocean there. Wasn't like they were rubbing up against each other on the subway.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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Posted: Jan 13, 2013 02:46 am 
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