Hey Kevin,

I may be guilty of fighting fire with fire and that doesn't help any discussion grow, but that comment on Bowers' writing was honest. It's hard to read his posts. If you want to make a point with absolute clarity, then write it with clarity.

I know the same has been mentioned to you by some and I think it would help you man. You tend to give a lot of info that piles up into one huge paragraph. If you'd hit the return key a couple of times in between your thoughts I think people could stay on track with what you write more easily.

My first comment to Marion in this thread was really meant in jest. I should've tacked on a corny winky eye like he litters through his posts; that way you're never guilty of being mean( a lesson on clarity) .

Unfortunately that started a mudslinging competition and I won't back off when people mis-quote me, or put words in my mouth.

Hey Kevin, no need to apologize, I am glad you are doing well! I have stated this before, both in defense of MB, Vinnie, and myself, that in my opinion there is nothing wrong with introducing your magic on this forum. This is a forum about coin magic, and the people here (like MB, Vinnie, myself, others), are proud to show their work here. What is so wrong about offering it to anyone interested at a fair price? As a consumer, the reader can look to buy, or just appreciate the routine. The dvds shown on the Café often showcase material, whether it is available to the consumer or not. On a personal note, I will cite references for the 17 disc NYCMS set because it contains a wealth of information that might be valuable to the person who aks, "Where can I find a coins across routine? What is the best Three fly? What DVD should I start with? What should I do after Bobo? Who has the best copper silver routine, and so on and so forth. You see these posts every day. I always point out where in my group's dvds the material is located, because the people who ask, simply don't know. If you want to call it a plug, so be it. I would prefer that OTHERS refer to the material, but I don't think they do, because they don't know about it.
Most of the people on this Café are hobbiests, who appreciate the references. I don't know what else I can say here, but I think the people who post here are more than generous in sharing their thoughts and experiences, in addition to their material. Have a great evening.

John, I sent you a PM.

Jim

I'm so sorry that you have a hard time understanding me.
I will try to write it better for you mule.
and maybe you will also think before you write anything too.

because what you write sounds different to us than how it sounds to you.
your glass always seems to be half full.
todd

The main problem in fourms is that we really don't know what inflections people are typing. I feel this is a perfect example. I don't think Mule meant no disrespect. Honestly.
I think a group hug is in order.
Tim

Thye magic Café is a great source for knowledge..I know I have leared much from this site as old as I am.
all I know there are moveres then there are shakers.....
Mule if you are tired of marions work then I probably fall into this same category,
as for dvds the minute one comes out with one 20 minutes later the crooks are downloading it for free and this is a fact.\
my new dvd will do the same for the ones that complain about the work will down load it for free

vinny

Hi Vinny.

Fortunately, the people who download the free, pirated magic DVDs would not have purchased them anyway, so it isn't money lost. The magicians who want your DVD will pay for it. But for the most part, the people who download pirated copies of your DVD are not the ones who would have purchased it. They're just the curious who will watch it because it's free - usually non-magicians with a slight, passing interest in how magic works.

Jim

So... Just read through all of this and I kinda see where Mule is coming from. It looks like he might have pushed a button, but people just went right back and pushed his buttons, but whatever.

MB knows me, I think, maybe by the name Prototyope. I often wondered why he hasn't brought all his ides together into one product, I mean it's a real evolution on an idea. I think it would make a good little DVD, people have done more with less from what I've seen. And as to his character, he even sent me his Grandpas Coins video before he put it out to get my opinion on it, so that was pretty cool.

And... Yay! Tim Feher's back!

You come across as a lucky hobbyist who got the chance to put out a video and make some money, then you keep advertising your videos in 95% of your posts.

Why not move on? Or can you?
[/quote]
I FOR ONE AM READY TO MOVE ON.NO HARD FEELINGS FOR SURE.
I WOULD LIKE TO ALSO SEE MB COMBINE HIS EFFECTS TOGEATHER.
THAT WAS NOT THE POINT I WAS ARGUEING.IT WAS THE REMARKS
LIKE THE ONE ABOVE AND OTHERS THAT WAS STATED ALSO IN THIS
THREAD ABOUT MB THAT I DIDN'T LIKE TO HEAR.

MB IS A GREAT FRIEND OF MINE HERE AT THE Café.
AND I WILL TAKE UP FOR HIM AS I SEE FIT.
I WILL NOT COMMIT ON THIS ANYMORE.
MULE DON'T TAKE THIS THE WRONG WAY ITS JUST
THE WAY I AM WHEN I THINK A FRIEND IS NOT BEING JUSTIFIED.
TODD

Ok?
What's up with all the caps?

Just getting my point across how I feel.
lets move on.

Alright...

Let's move on, but I'll try to be more clear (taking my own advice)

I stand by what I said about Marion peddling his videos in 95% of his posts. This sounded negative when I read it back.

What I mean is Marion had a good thing going once... Years ago. He has put out a number of videos that are merely iterations on one move. Why not compile that into a DVD. Instead he references back to those videos that are $10 a piece when they could all be put together as one cohesive thought on a move and it's possibilities.

It's just that he comes across as a salesman for himself or Vinny instead more than offering real helpful advice.

And my very first post to this thread commented on that thought. He never lets us forget he's selling. Why randomly bring back a product with a little back story to have people look at it?

Could have something to do with many new members on the Café and a less than wonderful search engine.

Why does Comcast keep advertising its bundled services? Everyone knows about it and it isn't new and isn't any cheaper.

The willingness to "offer real helpful advice" and selling magic effects are two different things. People do not buy an effect in order to get "advice."

Some, like myself, buy an effect from Mb or Vinny or others just to show appreciation for their creativity -- to "fuel the creative process."

also, by touting one "proven" effect a new reader might be taken to the Godfather's site and find a different effect more to their liking.

For many people, if they don't pay something for a product it has no value. Selling isn't always about the money -- just a way of keeping score.

I do occasionally sell an effect or magic book instead of giving them away. The quality of feedback from sales is better than that from freebies,
but I use the money to purchase effects from other magicians in appreciation. Many effects I cannot perform (most of Mb's and Vinny's) but buy them anyway.

Mb and Vinny and Tim got me back into performing coin magic despite my crippled hands. Sure glad they are out there selling!

The Café, is not short on giving folks.

Harris
a bit short on height, said Nigel the puppet that rocks and talks

Marion is always helping people and giving advice, often via PM. In fact he gives more help and advice to the people on this forum than almost anyone else I know. You've only been a member here for 8 weeks and I don't see much advice coming from your direction, just a lot of complaining.

You ask questions and expect answers so let's see if it works both ways as I have a question for you. What was your previous username on the Café and why did you create a new identity?

Your silly

Alright guys, let me come clean...

This is Sean Giles, I actually have another identity I've made up, "Mule Henderson" that I use to amuse myself.

Your silly:-P

Wasn't you dishing out advice on grammer recently? Ironic

I hope that was an attempt at sarcasm...

"Weren't you dishing out advice..." and you actually spelled grammar incorrectly.

Mouth...

Meet foot