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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Grand illusion » » Crystal Casket Inventor (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Oliver Ross
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Sorry Matt,

Just saw the link in a post from you in this thread. I should have been reading it completely through before posting something.

Oliver.
Matt Adams
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Quote:
On 2013-01-08 17:25, Oliver Ross wrote:
Sorry Matt,

Just saw the link in a post from you in this thread. I should have been reading it completely through before posting something.

Oliver.


Eh, we don't always have time for that. Sometimes a quick Google search is enough! Although not this time. Smile Thanks for the help and by all means let me know if you find something in print.
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Blair Marshall
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There is a 1905 U.S. patent application for a Glass Box Illusion. I'm not sure if it was to be filled with water, but it has the same design as a Crystal Box Illusion.

B
Matt Adams
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Awesome! I'll search...but do you have a patent number?
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Oliver Ross
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I've found in the book "The Art of Illusion" from Will Ayling published by Harry Stanley in 1968 an illusion called "Glass Trunk". Will Ayling refers to a Will Goldston catalogu of magic and the item 446 : The Trunk with the crystal lining".

He writes :"I remeber Carmo and Dante each using this type of trunk, and latterly it became the practice to dispense with the plate glass..." I can't go further in the text due to the open forum.

The only thing I can add is, that the technical working is different from the todays Crystal Casket; from the way how the girl is hidden and enters the glass trunk, but aswell as in the construction of the trunk.


Oliver.
David Charvet
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I don't have a source for the 1910 date, but it appears to have started appearing in illusion shows around that time. The Crystal Lamp is a vertical slatted box that revolves and the woman gradually appears inside. It was Robinson's invention. The Glass Box or "Crystal Casket" is a different effect with a different prop.

James Wobensmith, an attorney and magic enthusiast put together a book of magic patents back in the late 1920's. There have been others, since. You can do an online patent search through the U.S. Patent office website.
David Charvet
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Oliver. I believe that the Glass Lined Trunk does pre-date the Crystal Casket, but I don't think they are related in any way. Some performers dispensed with the glass from the trunk and used the trunk as a fast appearance, thus saving the problem of breaking glass on the road. Willard did the Glass Lined Trunk in its full form, for many years on his show, from about 1915, well into the 1960's.
Matt Adams
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Yeah, I looked into the glass trunk that Oliver mentioned and it's a very different method. So definitely not the same illusion.

James Wobensmith is also the same British attourny who filed a US patent for MDM which later passed to Thurston.

I'll look him up on patent search.
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Michael Baker
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There is a large list of magic patents in the Secret Sessions (top sticky).

The Crystal Box shown in the Wels book is copied from old Thayer plans, so it is definitely older than the book. Tha table is quite similar to the photo above.
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Oliver Ross
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Ok David.

That's what I thought. Your idea about a search through the U.S. Patent Office is a great idea.

What about contacting illusion builders like John Gaughan or Bill Smith, they might have some details that could help.

Oliver.
Matt Adams
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Ok, found 571 patents related to "wobensmith" but NONE of those are glass boxes (as far as I can tell) Smile
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Matt Adams
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Quote:
On 2013-01-08 18:37, Oliver Ross wrote:
What about contacting illusion builders like John Gaughan or Bill Smith, they might have some details that could help.

Oliver.


I try not to "bug" those guys too much. I save up multiple questions to ask all at one time. Smile So this might end up being one of those questions.
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David Charvet
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James Wobensmith was NOT the inventor, but an attorney who wrote a book about magic patents back in the 1920's.
David Charvet
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Here is a great profile of Wobensmith, with many magic patent references, by Tom Ewing from his "Mahatmaland" website:

http://www.mahatmaland.com/profiles/Wobensmith.pdf
Matt Adams
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On 2013-01-08 19:03, David Charvet wrote:
James Wobensmith was NOT the inventor, but an attorney who wrote a book about magic patents back in the 1920's.


Correct. You can still search the patents by "attorney" - which is what I did.
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Matt Adams
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Man...still nothing further. Tarbell doesn't have anything either.
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Matt Adams
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On 2013-01-08 18:01, Blair Marshall wrote:
There is a 1905 U.S. patent application for a Glass Box Illusion. I'm not sure if it was to be filled with water, but it has the same design as a Crystal Box Illusion.

B


Blair, I can't find this! Any help? Smile
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hugmagic
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Carl Rosini might have been the inventor if not one the first. He used it to produce a "Dane" It was a large Great Dane dog.

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Matt Adams
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On 2013-01-09 11:12, hugmagic wrote:
Carl Rosini might have been the inventor if not one the first. He used it to produce a "Dane" It was a large Great Dane dog.

Richard


That sounds neat! Can you provide any references for this info? I can't seem to find anything on it. Everything I've seen on Carl Rosini shows he dealt with smaller props in general. I DID find one reference from a magician who met "Carl Rosini who did great magic and had a great dane!" but that was all.
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Matt Adams
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Jackie Gleason used it in 1957 on television.

Also, Genii Vol. 25, No. 12 (Aug 1961) says that John Daniel is "co-owner" of Owen Magic and performed this effect in 1961.
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