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Kabbalah
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On Aug 30, 2015, Harry Lorayne wrote:
Done. I never mind.


?

I had made a comment and after further reflection, I decided it wasn't worth it so I edited my post.

Thus, never mind.
"Long may magicians fascinate and continue to be fascinated by the mystery potential in a pack of cards."
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Harry Lorayne
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And after further reflection I think it's important to repeat: You guys should start reading the good stuff!
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doopyloop
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"The obvious thieves out there." ... "You could just check it out in CLOSE-UP CARD MAGIC where it was originally published by me, and properly taught, even way back then."

"This was a great trick when it was originally published as I Should Judge, pp. 38-40, in Rufus Steele's 1946 book 50 Tricks ~ Tricks You Can Do - You Will Do - Easy To Do."

"I'm not an historian and I don't care."

:(
Harry Lorayne
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Repetition is good. So: "I'm not an historian and I don't care. You guys should start reading the good stuff!" Thanks, dopeyloop.
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LookyLookyMan
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On Aug 31, 2015, doopyloop wrote:
"The obvious thieves out there." ... "You could just check it out in CLOSE-UP CARD MAGIC where it was originally published by me, and properly taught, even way back then."

"This was a great trick when it was originally published as I Should Judge, pp. 38-40, in Rufus Steele's 1946 book 50 Tricks ~ Tricks You Can Do - You Will Do - Easy To Do."

"I'm not an historian and I don't care."

:(


It's bizarre to me how Mr L doesn't just say "Oh yes, that's obviously something someone else put out before me. Sorry."
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Haven't read it, haven't seen it, so can't say that.

If in fact it is so, obviously I'd "just say", etc. But I've every once in a while heard these kinds of things, Mr. New User, for over FOUR DECADES and most often, when I checked, what was stated had little to do with what I had published.

And, what I had published was published in a book back in 1962 - that's over half a century ago - a book that has sold more than most magic books ever, I'm told. And people all over the world, and over these decades, have been performing my STOP! And, so far as I know, and so far as anyone knew, including personal friends, like Dai Vernon, John Scarne, Bill Simon, Francis Carlyle, Dick Cardini, Tony Slydini, Jacob Daley, and on and on, knew, nobody had been performing a similar effect. (Know why? 'Cause I fooled people like those just mentioned with STOP!)

People all over the world started to perform it WHEN I PUBLISHED IT. Needed to let you know that, sir, just for the record.

So, Mr. New User, have you read that item in Rufus Steele's book and have you read my routine in my book? If you have, and since you're quite interested in this thread, please send me a copy - do it here so that all can see - of the Rufus Steele effect. Then we can KNOWLEDGEABLY judge.

And to repeat, I'll be more than happy to follow your instructions and "just say" if in fact "just say" is warranted. Of course, if you haven't read either of the above - that'd be really, really, BIZARRE TO ME - and I'd wonder why you couldn't just say, "I had no idea what I was talking about. Sorry." So, let's go from there, Mr. New User. Let me make sure I'm being clear ... so I'll say it again - If, in fact, my STOP! is similar to the item in Mr. Steele's book, I will be more than happy to "just say."
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Kabbalah
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Quote:
On Sep 1, 2015, Harry Lorayne wrote:

And people all over the world, and over these decades, have been performing my STOP! And, so far as I know, and so far as anyone knew, including personal friends, like Dai Vernon, John Scarne, Bill Simon, Francis Carlyle, Dick Cardini, Tony Slydini, Jacob Daley, and on and on, knew, nobody had been performing a similar effect. (Know why? 'Cause I fooled people like those just mentioned with STOP!)



From the introduction to I Should Judge, page 38, in 50 Tricks...

"This effect was used for a number of years to fool magicians with."

Interesting that no one knew of it.
"Long may magicians fascinate and continue to be fascinated by the mystery potential in a pack of cards."
~Cliff Green

"The greatest tricks ever performed are not done at all. The audience simply think they see them."
~ John Northern Hilliard
Harry Lorayne
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Sorry; this still doesn't tell me the effect you're talking about. No help at all. Just a bit of psychobabble; meaningless. So, let me repeat: "And people all over the world, and over these decades, have been performing my STOP! And, so far as I know, and so far as anyone knew, including personal friends, like Dai Vernon, John Scarne, Bill Simon, Francis Carlyle, Dick Cardini, Tony Slydini, Jacob Daley, and on and on, knew, nobody had been performing a similar effect. (Know why? 'Cause I fooled people like those just mentioned with STOP!)"

That means - just want to make it clear for those who seem not to be able to understand - NOBODY, so far as I, and so far as those mentioned above in my "repeat," knew of anyone doing ANY SORT OF SIMILAR EFFECT until AFTER my book was published in 1962. Of course, I'd been doing Stop! (and fooling knowledgeable magicians like those in my "repeat") for years before CLOSE-UP CARD MAGIC was published. I remember doing it for Lou Tannen, who said, "Will you put that effect in a book?" I said "sure." That had something to do with Tannens publishing a book written by a then unknown.
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Kabbalah
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On Sep 1, 2015, Harry Lorayne wrote:

Sorry; this still doesn't tell me the effect you're talking about. No help at all. Just a bit of psychobabble; meaningless.


The effect I am talking about (as stated more than once) is I Should Judge.

The trick and method are exactly as you published in 1962, sixteen years after 50 Tricks.
"Long may magicians fascinate and continue to be fascinated by the mystery potential in a pack of cards."
~Cliff Green

"The greatest tricks ever performed are not done at all. The audience simply think they see them."
~ John Northern Hilliard
Harry Lorayne
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You'd have to "do" a copy here, as I've already asked Looky... to do, so that I can see it. Then, if it's as you say, I'll agree that that came first EVEN THOUGH I KNEW NOTHING ABOUT IT - just as the names I've already dropped didn't know anything about it.

So, I know you're salivating because here's your chance to try to show me up! (What a surprise!) So do it - put a copy of I Should Judge here - I sure want to see if it's EXACTLY like what I published in 1962. If it is, obviously I'd have to "just say" that that came first - two minds, etc. And that'd be the end of this boring thread. Not terribly unusual - IT'S BEEN DONE TO ME MANY, MANY, TIMES OVER THE DECADES. Interesting that you never came in to spout about those. Anyway, let's all see a copy of I Should Judge out of Rufus Steele's book.
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Harry Lorayne
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If that Steele item is the same - then I'll simply have to accept only the kudos for popularizing the effect. That's fine by me. Get to it, Kabullah. You'll even make LookyKooky... happy. (Don't know why Abbott and Costello come to mind.)
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Kabbalah
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Quote:
On Sep 1, 2015, Harry Lorayne wrote:

So, Mr. New User, have you read that item in Rufus Steele's book and have you read my routine in my book? If you have, and since you're quite interested in this thread, please send me a copy - do it here so that all can see - of the Rufus Steele effect. Then we can KNOWLEDGEABLY judge.



Since Harry posed the challenge, for those interested in provenance and crediting, and, not in possession of the Rufus Steele book. you can get it here for $2.99.
"Long may magicians fascinate and continue to be fascinated by the mystery potential in a pack of cards."
~Cliff Green

"The greatest tricks ever performed are not done at all. The audience simply think they see them."
~ John Northern Hilliard
Harry Lorayne
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As I've mentioned to those who've called - Don't ask me why things from over six and five decades ago are taking up space here. I've no idea. Oh well, I do have a bit of an idea re: Mr. Obvious Kabullah, but I don't want to take up any more space.

Posted: Sep 1, 2015 02:38 pm
Still waiting for the lovelies to print out that effect so we can all see how similar my STOP! is to it. Until then - it's just the usual Kabullah psychobabble. Hey, he may be right - but there's no way to know, at least for me to know, until I read exactly what was in Mr. Steele's book.
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Harry Lorayne
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Still waiting for the lovelies to print out that effect so we can all see how similar my STOP! is to it. Until then - it's just the usual Kabullah psychobabble. Hey, he may be right - but there's no way to know, at least for me to know, until I read exactly what was in Mr. Steele's book.
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Nicolino
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Quote:
On Sep 1, 2015, Harry Lorayne wrote:
As I've mentioned to those who've called - Don't ask me why things from over six and five decades ago are taking up space here.

Most probably because we're talking about crediting here!?
Or how else would you call the whole 'theft debate' you had started yourself, Harry?

When it's about proper crediting, it doesn't matter if we're talking about years or even decades! Also, it's not someone else's job to do the research for you when you put out an effect under your name, imho.

Personally, I look very much forward to compare both effects. And no: I don't ask any member here to file share a copy. Smile
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Harry Lorayne
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As I said, Kabullah may be right, but I would like him to prove this statement of his: "The trick and method are exactly as you published in 1962, sixteen years after 50 Tricks." Repeat - it's his "exactly" I'd like him to prove. And to repeat again, he may be right, but prove it, dammit. And if it's proven, as I said, I will simply have to accept the kudos for popularizing the effect, enabling card people all over the world, over the decades, to stun people with it which, so far as I know, was never, ever, done before. So, forgive all the "repeats," but - still waiting for his proof.
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Count Lustig
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On Sep 1, 2015, Harry Lorayne wrote:
...Hey, he may be right - but there's no way to know, at least for me to know, until I read exactly what was in Mr. Steele's book.

Yes, there is absolutely no way in God's green earth that you can ever know. No possible way--unless you're willing to spend two dollars and ninety-nine cents.
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Harry Lorayne, you are not KING and persons here not your SERVANTS.

Kaballah user shows you book where all can see method. You are publsiher and writer. You have RESPONSIBILITY if you sell magic book for money and putting your name on the covers. You hve this SPECIALLY if you call other person THIEF when situation is reversal.

This is SAD.

:(
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I Should Judge as published by Rufus Steele:

"Effect: The cards are cut and the card at bottom of cut remembered. The deck is now squared and if you can false shuffle it will help. The deck is now divided into five piles one card at a time on each pile. Now spectator is asked to look through the piles and find the pile his selected card is in. The rest of the piles are discarded. The spectator is told to hold his pile face down and deal one card at a time in a pile until told to stop. When spectator goes through the pile the first time offer an excuse "you laid them down too fast for me, do it once more and do it slower". After several cards are laid on the table and the spectator is about to lay another down say, "Stop", and believe it or not the card he is now holding is the selected card."

I would say this is similar to HL's "Stop!" The method is based on the same principle though one could argue that the methods themselves are different (as one involves division and the other does not). However the effect and method (especially the method) are poorly explained by Steele. For example, he does not state whether the cards should be face up or face down when dealt into the 5 piles. I had to read HL's description to find out. Based on the instructions given by Steele, I could not perform the trick as it is so poorly written.

As usual, HL's description of Stop! is crystal clear. Also, it is not EXACTLY identical. For example, in Stop! the participant is asked to deal the cards into 4, 5, or 6 piles (not just 5) which certainly elevates the effect. Also HL, but not Steele, discusses some outs in case one's estimation is off.

For me, "Stop!" is doable and "I Should Judge" is not.

David M.
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On Sep 1, 2015, doopyloop wrote:
Harry Lorayne, you are not KING and persons here not your SERVANTS.

Kaballah user shows you book where all can see method. You are publsiher and writer. You have RESPONSIBILITY if you sell magic book for money and putting your name on the covers. You hve this SPECIALLY if you call other person THIEF when situation is reversal.

This is SAD.

:(


It's not like it's the first time it's happened. For someone who wrote a book about memory, HL seems to forget where a lot of his stuff originally came from.
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